JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

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What short term investment should CO throw some coin at?

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Tdarcos
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Tdarcos »

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:20 pm Here is the thing I don't get about gold. I would like to understand it!

Let's say you are invested in it but don't have the actual metal at your house. Society crumbles. Are we expected to go to wherever the metal is stored and show them a printout of what we have invested and get it?

Let's say that you do have the metal, and it's in a strong box at the bank. Society collapses. You can't even get into the bank to retrieve it.

You have to do what Bryan B. alluded to and keep it at home, right?
Alternatives to the above.
  1. Where available, non-bank safe deposit box companies.
  2. Renting or borrowing space in a long-term secure facility like Iron Mountain or a salt mine that rents out the evacuated caverns for use as storage facilities.
  3. Putting it in a storage facility like Public Storage, inside a safe.
  4. Burying it in the backyard, or on some other property you own or control. (This requires you take extremely precise measurements and keep detailed records, especially if your "backyard" is a couple of acres in size.)
  5. Putting it in a secured safe, like one put in a hole in your basement and secured by pouring concrete around it. A Safe buried that way can't be stolen unless they have jackhammers to dig it out.
  6. Hide it "Purloined letter method" (see below).
All of these require you follow the "Fight Club rule of owning gold." You do not tell people that you own gold. You might even act noncommittal about it if asked, that you might consider it, but the price is too high right now. Or you might say you wish you had bought it in 2009 when it was $250 an ounce. Or just out-and-out lie and say you don't have any. Nobody else needs to know that you have valuables like gold, any more than they need to know that you keep, say, a thousand bucks in cash and 3-400 rounds of ammo in your gun safe. Even your closest friends might turn on you if things go south. Only your immediate family, and only the ones who keep their mouth shut. You don't want your six-year-old telling every random stranger that "Daddy keeps $50,000 in gold coins in our basement safe."

Now for the "Purloined Letter" method of hiding valuables (from the book of the same name where things "hide in plain sight", you just don't realize what they are):
  1. You can purchase a gun safe that looks like an ordinary shelf, that you can put knick-knacks on. But when you run a magnet (provided) near the edge, a false bottom opens large enough to hold two handguns. Anything big enough to hold two handguns is big enough to hold the equivalent of a roll of quarters, which instead could be 40 ounces of gold (current retail value, about $72,000).
  2. You can install a fake electrical outlet, set in an area that is unreachable, behind the couch, etc. Or instead of an electrical outlet, it can be an Ethernet port. But when the plate cover comes off, you have a 4"x6"x3" space.
  3. Using a stud finder, pick a non-load bearing wall and cut a hole in the drywall between the studs. This can be large enough for an 18"x1'x anything up to 6' tall. Put the items in, then patch the drywall.
  4. Your toilet's water connection is probably from a pipe running below it. This means there is nothing behind the tank. Another place you can put a "hole in the wall safe."
  5. Can safes where an ordinary can of beans, soft drink or innocuous food item, has a screwable lid revealing a storage space.
  6. Cut out the inside of a book, or even an unabridged dictionary, then glue the pages together to create a storage space.
  7. An old, no-longer used cannister or upright vacuum can provide an excellent hiding place.
  8. Shorten your bedroom closet by 6". Cut drywall to fit, then use tape over the edges and paint. Before you close it up, you have a space 6" deep, 3' wide and 8' tall. If you want it accessible, cut a piece near the bottom so you can pull it, then repaint/reseal it.
  9. You probably have old computer hardware that has only sentimental value or is considered worthless, like a Packard Bell computer. If it's an old tower or large desktop, you might easily have a cubic foot of space available.
Note: For anything using old items you must make sure that nobody is ever permitted to discard old items without permission. And your significant other would have to know that you're using it as a hiding space.

Or think about it: where is someone unlikely to look for valuables? Pro tip: Hiding things in your freezer is no longer a viable choice; that trick is so well known that it can be the first place a thief looks. Also, if you have a place where you have valuables, consider hiring a security auditor, someone who does not sell equipment. They might advise you on ways that simply require changing habits so you are less of a target.
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Ice Cream Jonsey
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

Ok, you have sold me on it! Where can I get a couple gold coins? Who is a reputable dealer of such things?
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Flack
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Flack »

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:20 pm Here is the thing I don't get about gold. I would like to understand it!

Let's say you are invested in it but don't have the actual metal at your house. Society crumbles. Are we expected to go to wherever the metal is stored and show them a printout of what we have invested and get it?

Let's say that you do have the metal and it's in a strong box at the bank. Society collapses. You can't even get into the bank to retrieve it.

You have to do what Bryan B. alluded to and keep it at home, right?
Wait, are you talking about now, or Vietnam in 1968?
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Flack
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Flack »

I suppose I should dial this back and say that there are two conversations here -- the first being, what's a good investment assuming society does not completely fall apart, with the other being what's a good investment if that ever happens.

Gold and real estate are great investments assuming society is still operating. In the 1990s, gold was selling for $250-$300/ounce. The current price is just over $1,800. Gold gonna gold, baby. Same goes for property prices. Assuming banks and Wall Street and everything else is still operating, having a piece of paper saying you own some gold is as good as owning some gold.

If you want to talk about good investments if the system ever crashes, that's a whole different story. Find someone who hasn't eaten in a week and offer them a choice between a pound of bacon and a pound of gold and see which one they pick. If you want to imagine what life will be at that point, go back a year and look at all the pictures of stores that ran out of toilet paper. People will lose their minds in about two days. You know all those guys driving their big 4x4 trucks in those Trump Trains a couple of years ago? Those will be the guys kicking in your front door and taking your food. If you are considering walling off a portion of your closet to hide $50,000 in gold coins or whatever, you are preparing for the worst -- and the reality of the worst is that people will be trying to kill you every single day to take your stuff, so you all better be prepared to switch from "I like to type on computers" to "I am willing to guard my house 24/7 and shoot anyone who tries to come in" mode. Nobody will want your gold because you can't eat it and it won't help you survive. A can of Campbell's soup will be worth more than a gold coin.

Tell an entire country that their money is worthless while turning off their food and water and watch how fast shit gets crazy. Go watch any of the Mad Max films and imagine how much better his life would have been if he had a bunch of gold hidden in a vacuum cleaner (hint: zero).
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Ice Cream Jonsey
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

I think there is a third discussion here which is to say that the Vietnam War was a gold bullion extortion racket.
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odyssia76
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by odyssia76 »

bryanb wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:55 pm OK, so I'm mostly joking if that's not completely obvious by now. During the pandemic I have been trying to keep more than one package on hand because my years of living dangerously are behind me, but it hasn't reached extreme levels or anything.
I say just get a bidet and save money save the environment never worry about TP again and have a way cleaner bunghole. Also save energy. They are cheap and super easy to install on your toilet. Problem solved.
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Casual Observer »

Thanks all for the awesome investment advice! For the record, we're going with a mixture of index funds and pharma stocks for the 401k. For the short term fun, I was almost ready to pull the trigger on some crypto but then thought about the fact that I don't know enough nor do I have the time to study and track shit so I'd lose my shirt doing it myself. All the "crypto traders" reaching out to me on LinkedIn seem to be super sketchy so I thought about PM'ing Jizz and offering to send him some play money since he seems to know his shit with this but if money between friends is bad and money between internet friends must be worse. Then there's the dodgecoin mess this week and if my investment depends on a tweet or joke from Elon Musk then no thanks.

Nobody voted for sending it to Flack to run up in hold'em which was disappointing because that would have been a fun thread.

Gold seems like not a thing for me for now because I'm counting on inflation to help me pay less on my debt over time and walmart sells guns 2 blocks from where I live so I have time to get me a couple of shotguns


So short term extra cash goes to more filipina ladies working for me and some quality of life investments like my wife's new fish tank and my upcoming Kenyan Sand Boa thread.

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odyssia76
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by odyssia76 »

I have been reading this thread with a very skeptical mind. Tdarcos makes a few valid points but i think in t he end i am not convinced. He says:
Tdarcos wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:23 am
Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:20 pm
Tdarcos wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:23 am All of these require you follow the "Fight Club rule of owning gold." You do not tell people that you own gold. You might even act noncommittal about it if asked, that you might consider it, but the price is too high right now. Or you might say you wish you had bought it in 2009 when it was $250 an ounce. Or just out-and-out lie and say you don't have any. Nobody else needs to know that you have valuables like gold, any more than they need to know that you keep, say, a thousand bucks in cash and 3-400 rounds of ammo in your gun safe. Even your closest friends might turn on you if things go south. Only your immediate family, and only the ones who keep their mouth shut. You don't want your six-year-old telling every random stranger that "Daddy keeps $50,000 in gold coins in our basement safe."
While this is true it has a big flaw. And that is that it only works as long as the secret is kept. Say the world goes sid4eways but you have secret gold in your backyard. Then you need to trade for food or something else. You secretly go and get some of your gold and give it to the person you are trading with. Then, bing!, Pandoras box is open. Now everyone knows "that guy had gold". So the trick only works exactly once. After that you are in extra danger because everyone spreads rumors that you have gold. Even if it were not true and you had no gold it would be a dangerous rumor. And the same is true no matter what method you use to hide yer gold. As soon as anyone knows you pay for things with gold no matter what method of hiding method of hiding as soon as you use it your secrecy is instantly vaporized.

And thats assuming people want gold. Yeah maybe they do but you cant really use gold form much in a zombie apocalypse scenario. You won't be making circuit boards or jewelry. You cant eat gold or use it to make useful metal items. It has value for the same reason paper money has value because people think it has value. You can't live on gold. If someone wants food yeah maybe they can trade your gold for some food if they can find someone who has food and wants gold. But then you get back to basic barter which works fine if one lady wants eggs and has meat and the other lady has eggs and wants meat. But after that it gets more complicated.

Luckily there is one commodity that meets all of tdarcos' standards. It is super valuable, super easy to hide, super easy to use, can never be stolen, and would be much more useful for savin yer ass than gold is. And you don't need to go through any of all that trouble he talks about. Think about it people. Gold star to anyone who solves the riddle first!
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odyssia76
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by odyssia76 »

Argh fucking nested quotes i hate them and not being able to fix them.
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odyssia76
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by odyssia76 »

This whole discussion reminds me of a great parable by Neal Stephenson in his book cryptnomicon which anyone who is interested in gold and value and storage and so on should definitely read Here is one section of the book that is very relevant (I like books too!). naturally there are some references here and there to other stuff in the book but the basic story is pretty simple. The guys name is Randy and he works for a company named Epiphyte.

https://pastebin.com/n6sPyrYP
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Jizaboz
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Jizaboz »

Casual Observer wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:12 pm Thanks all for the awesome investment advice! For the record, we're going with a mixture of index funds and pharma stocks for the 401k. For the short term fun, I was almost ready to pull the trigger on some crypto but then thought about the fact that I don't know enough nor do I have the time to study and track shit so I'd lose my shirt doing it myself. All the "crypto traders" reaching out to me on LinkedIn seem to be super sketchy so I thought about PM'ing Jizz and offering to send him some play money since he seems to know his shit with this but if money between friends is bad and money between internet friends must be worse. Then there's the dodgecoin mess this week and if my investment depends on a tweet or joke from Elon Musk then no thanks.
Yeah, it can be a pain to have to keep an eye on. I actually cashed out 1200$ earlier this week before I did something stupid with it in my Binance account lol. Just holding 100$ of Doge and some Cardano coin atm. It's really volatile right now.

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odyssia76
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by odyssia76 »

Casual Observer wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:12 pmwe're going with a mixture of index funds and pharma stocks for the 401k

You are going to lose your shirt on pharma stocks because Biden is gonna make them stop ass raping everyone in the country with absurd sky high prices. And thats nothing compared to when we get single payer.
Casual Observer wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:12 pm So short term extra cash goes to more filipina ladies working for me and some quality of life investments like my wife's new fish tank and my upcoming Kenyan Sand Boa thread.
Every penny you spend paying off debt is free money earned. People who are paying 10%-$30% on their credit cards and making 5% on their investments are dumb people. Pay off debits first thats what my dad always said and he knows his shit. If you pay off your credit cards then start paying down your mortgage or saving for a home.
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by AArdvark »

I just wanna hear about more hiding places for gold!

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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

Ok, lemme figure out how to turn editing of posts on. I have turned it on a zillion times but it never sticks.
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Tdarcos
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Tdarcos »

Flack wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:28 am In the 1990s, gold was selling for $250-$300/ounce. The current price is just over $1,800.
From 1990 to 1999, the price fluctuated from $384 in 1990, to $279 in 1999. As with any investment, short term it can go up or go down. As I have said, Gold is a long term investment intended to preserve wealth over time. But, if you buy it at the wrong time you can lose money. If you bought in 1978, gold was $147 an ounce. By 1980, the price had jumped to $680. Then it cratered; the price did not rise above $680 until 2006, or twenty-six years later. This is exactly why I have repeatedly said that it should be about a 10% investment, in case the price plummets, you don't lose too much. But, the price has risen steadily since 1971 when gold ownership was re-legalized.
Flack wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:28 am Gold gonna gold, baby. Same goes for property prices. Assuming banks and Wall Street and everything else is still operating, having a piece of paper saying you own some gold is as good as owning some gold.
Not necessarily. There was an incident in the Midwest a few years ago. A number of farmers had delivered their wheat to a silo, then the silo's owner went bankrupt. The farmers were secondary creditors to higher priority ones, who got paid first, from the sale of the wheat in storage. So the farmers got pennies on the dollar when the place holding their wheat went bust. Society was still intact, but they lost a lot of money.

These farmers had written proof that they owned a certain amount of wheat. They could have brought trucks down and retrieved it. That still didn't stop it from being sold to pay the silo owner's debts.

Recently, the FBI raided a business that offered non-bank safe deposit boxes. Despite the boxes being customer property, and the warrant was only against the owner of the business, the feds still seized the customers boxes, making them prove they're entitled to their property back.

They have written proof (or a key) that shows that they own a particular safe deposit box. Didn't stop it from being confiscated, and then they have to prove they have a right to it. Can be a big problem if you can't prove you made enough money to afford what was in your box.

You do not necessarily want to be holding a receipt for something valuable, you want to be holding the item.
Flack wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:28 am If you want to talk about good investments if the system ever crashes, that's a whole different story. Find someone who hasn't eaten in a week and offer them a choice between a pound of bacon and a pound of gold and see which one they pick.
If they're stupid they take the pound of bacon. If they have any intelligence, they take the pound of gold and deliver it to a coin dealer, who would give them $21,000, enough to eat, at $30 a day, for a year and a half. Even if civilization has collapsed, then people will still trade gold for food. People have been using gold for commerce for as long as there has been civilization, over 6,000 years. I can't see that changing any time in my lifetime.
Flack wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:28 am If you want to imagine what life will be at that point, go back a year and look at all the pictures of stores that ran out of toilet paper.
We've had TP shortages before. Johnny Carson stared one when he told a joke how the army was unable to find toilet paper because there was a shortage. Yes, there was. Of one-ply really cheap toilet paper they supply to troops. But, people thought it was a shortage of ordinary two-ply paper civilians buy. This then created a shortage as stupid people started panic buying. There was adequate supply of toilet paper for usual and customary demand. But not for panic hoarding.

Paper manufacturers make enough toilet paper for regular demand. If there are surges in demand you might ramp up a little, but you don't want to create so much that you've got stock sitting in warehouses that you can't sell because the excess demand evaporated. Stores don't want to buy excessive amounts because they don't want to be stuck with excess inventory. So in the case of sudden high demand, the supply chain can't keep up. This is why it's important to be able to either raise prices to discourage hoarding, or if not allowed, to ration purchases. Once all those panic buyers have more than they can use, the supply will return to pre-panic levels and the crisis will end.
Flack wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:28 am People will lose their minds in about two days.
And some people won't. They are the ones who make out like a bandit when others panic.
Flack wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:28 am You know all those guys driving their big 4x4 trucks in those Trump Trains a couple of years ago? Those will be the guys kicking in your front door and taking your food.
And when facing down the business end of a 30-06 or semi-automatic rifle, they will go elsewhere. Or if they search your place and can't find it. Or you leave your place looking like it's already been ransacked, so there's nothing to steal. The latter has usually been very effective.

There was a report about a guy who lived in a home in one of those prototypical South American banana republics where law-and-order break down with distressing regularity. He lived in a run-down house, overgrown with weeds and thorn bushes in his back yard. Looters ignored his place, seeing it was in terrible shape, he obviously had no money. His property was untouched while better looking places were ransacked.
Flack wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:28 am If you are considering walling off a portion of your closet to hide $50,000 in gold coins or whatever, you are preparing for the worst
If you have that much on hand you certainly should have insurance and an alarm system. And then you probably have to fight with your insurer over losses. Unless you've taken steps to make losses less likely.

But, in fact, you are preparing for the worst. That right here, right now, in civil society, you're just preparing against your property in a middle class neighborhood from being robbed. Robbers have to act fast, fast, fast, most try to be in-and-out in less than twenty minutes, often as little as ten. They're going to look for obvious things, jewelry boxes in bedrooms, portable safes they can grab and open at their leisure, cash in drawers, gun racks, furs, and stuff they can get to on a cursory basis, like computers. Things they can spend or fence. What they can't see they can't steal. If it would take them too long to find valuables, they just assume they aren't there and look elsewhere.
Flack wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:28 am -- and the reality of the worst is that people will be trying to kill you every single day to take your stuff, so you all better be prepared to switch from "I like to type on computers" to "I am willing to guard my house 24/7 and shoot anyone who tries to come in" mode.
Well, if civilization collapses that's what would happen. Then, depending on who you know and what they have, probably a group of like-minded people get together and one of them sits on a roof overlooking their homes in the neighborhood, shooting invaders. After a few hours another switches with them. At which point, looters seeing corpses outside the neighborhood will head for softer targets.

Back during the Rodney King riots, people wanting to steal things avoided certain stores, which remained untouched. Because the shopowners stood on their roof aiming a shotgun at anyone approaching their store.
Flack wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:28 am Nobody will want your gold because you can't eat it and it won't help you survive. A can of Campbell's soup will be worth more than a gold coin.
Bullshit. Over all of civilization, gold first, then silver, and other precious metals (like platinum) once we found a use for them, became the go-to commodity for trading and commerce. Gold has so many intrinsic uses: it does not rust or corrode, will not decay, it is resistant to most acids, it can be used for plating, gold leaf, jewelry, tooth fillings, cosmetics, medals, coins...

The guy who has extra food might be willing to sell some for gold, because he can trade gold for ammunition, medicine, and other useful things.

If a civilization collapses, looting might occur for a short time, but eventually the existing food rots and becomes useless. Eventually people have to go back to pre-electricity technology, which means hand plows and farm animals. Or perhaps hunting, which means learning to use a bow and arrow, slingshot, or throwing a spear (firearms will be useless once ammo runs out and the capability to make gunpower and cartridges is gone,)

Now, "no man is an island." The farmer who has surplus grain might want to buy another oxen. The man who has killed three wild goats or cattle might want to butcher it and trade for someone who can make shoes. Maybe he can trade leather but the shoemaker wants something extra for his trouble and to pay for the nails he needsto make the shoes. Or maybe he can't use any more leather, he's got too much, but wants some blankets. But the blanket maker wants somethinge else. And so on, and so on.

Once civilization rises again, where people start trading, barter has very high "friction" as the other party might want something you don't have. When acquiring a pair of shoes requires ten different transactions and you end up with two blankets and 50 pounds of wheat seeds you can't use, then maybe you decide there needs to be a better answer. Maybe you open a trading post, where various merchants sell you their goods on consignment. But that isn't good for perishables like eggs and milk.

Also, is a pair of shoes worth a pound of wheat or a bushel of wheat? Eventually, everyone is going to need something to make it easy to trade. Something that can't be counterfeited, that will retain value (meaning it has to be hard to obtain), that won't rot like whear, won't rust like iron, that you can continue to use even if they don't restore electricity in your lifetime. And it has to be something that if you got stuck with more of it than you can trade that it's useful for something else.

Over eons, the oly thing that has met all the needs of a stable, predictable money, has been gold, then later, silver.
Flack wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:28 am Tell an entire country that their money is worthless while turning off their food and water and watch how fast shit gets crazy. Go watch any of the Mad Max films and imagine how much better his life would have been if he had a bunch of gold hidden in a vacuum cleaner (hint: zero).
Uh, try again. In a complete, total collapse of society some people will start looting. In some cases they may have to, you would have to either abandon an urban area or be able to convert your apartment to grow food. But you'll need seed. Either you'd have to barter for it or steal it. Eventually civilization rises, and barter is too inefficient (has too much friction.) That's when people want something that they can use to effect trade, something valuable. Whatever it is - even if it was gasoline - people would want things they don't have (gee, it would be nice to have some shoes instead of being barefoot and maybe stepping on something.) "If only we had something better to trade with than gasoline, that's hard to come by and goes bad in six months."
"It would be nice if we had something valuable I could save to use for trading for things I need during the months when I'm waiting for my crop to ripen."

This is exactly why gold became a means of exchange. Because over millenia it was a reliable store of value.
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Flack
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Flack »

0% chance of me reading that. Anyone want to sum it up for me?
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Casual Observer »

odyssia76 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:37 pm You are going to lose your shirt on pharma stocks because Biden is gonna make them stop ass raping everyone in the country with absurd sky high prices. And thats nothing compared to when we get single payer.

So Odyssia, are you an old school republican? Hopefully not one of the new breed. I'm going to research this but my gut tells me that governments throwing almost a trillion dollars at the big 5 pharma will hedge against any liberal fantasy. Not just big bad pharma either as they're gonna plow those greenbacks into an acquisition spree like never before. Then all those doctors and scientists who just sold their startup will take their bag of money and develop a mew molecule or something. Pharmas not going anywhere, new tech bubble baby! But good advice though, diversify and hold.

odyessya wrote: Every penny you spend paying off debt is free money earned. People who are paying 10%-$30% on their credit cards and making 5% on their investments are dumb people. Pay off debits first thats what my dad always said and he knows his shit. If you pay off your credit cards then start paying down your mortgage or saving for a home.
yeah, i know, but . . . Inflation is awesome for debt. By the time i got around to pay my student debt, the same education would have cost me three times as much. Pay down debt with inflated dollars i say.

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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by AArdvark »

the great wall of text
I just can't Tdarcos this morning, I'll read it later in the day.

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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Tdarcos »

Casual Observer wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:31 pm ]yeah, i know, but . . . Inflation is awesome for debt. By the time i got around to pay my student debt, the same education would have cost me three times as much. Pay down debt with inflated dollars i say.
When inflation is 16, 18, 20%, this is a correct strategy. When inflation is low or negative, it's disastrous. The tech industry has been in negative inflation mode for years, the computer you buy 5 years from now will have twice the speed and capacity and will cost less than a current machine does now. If you price ordinary household goods, e.g. food, gasoline, electricity, etc., the so-called "market basket," I suspect price inflation is very low right now.
"Perhaps she'll understand, if you tell it to her, plain."
- Don McLean, Castles in the Air

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Post by Tdarcos »

Flack wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:43 pm 0% chance of me reading that. Anyone want to sum it up for me?
More than 6,000 years of history shows, that for the reasons I explained in great detail, that ironically when civilization collapses, gold remains in even higher demand than in good times, so that the man with a gold coin has lots more opportunities than the man with a can of soup, and probably has a better chance of being able to eat. (The bare-handed man with gold can buy food and a can opener, the bare-handed man with a can of soup might not be able to open it.)
"Perhaps she'll understand, if you tell it to her, plain."
- Don McLean, Castles in the Air

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