JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

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Casual Observer
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Casual Observer »

odyssia76 wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:19 am
Casual Observer wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:53 pm What sources of leads are you thinking about that are unethical? What an interesting topic to me.
Well, not everyone agrees on what "ethical" means, and I don't know enough about your industry and how leads are normally generated to have a strong position.
odyssia76 wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:19 am Ethical ways would be things like advertising and opt-in stuff.
No, they don't have to opt in for me to call them. That's for marketing losers.
odyssia76 wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:19 am Do you run the numbers through the national "do not call" registry?
Absolutely not. I'm not selling car extended warrantees here, I'm calling titles and roles, not people so "do not call" does not apply. Actually, "do not call" only applies to using an autodialer to call someone's cell phone, which is supposedly prohibited but companies do it all the time still. If I'm dialing manually, I can call anyone's cell phone I want anytime I want as often as I want and they can't do shit about it.

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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

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Remind me never to give CO my number!
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Casual Observer »

Well, you don't seem to be on linkedin as far as I can tell and though there are lots of B$njamin Pa$$ish's in the databases, no way to tell if any of them are you so you're safe. For now.

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Ice Cream Jonsey
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

Tdarcos wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:25 pm Not quite. An index fund is a composite of all the companies in that fund. Let's say there was a supermarket/food store fund. So in this you could have: Ahold Delhaize, Albertsons, Amazon, Aldi, CVS, Dollar Tree, Kroger, Meijer, Piggly Wiggly, Publix, Rite Aid, Shop Rite, Stop and Shop, Target, Trader Joe's, Walgreens, Walmart, Wegmans, and Weis Markets.
Ok, good point, I see my error now when I specified that a fund was made up of a lot of stocks and you corrected me to state that a fund is made up of a lot of stocks.

Serious question - do you all think this BBS has a bad case of the "know it alls?" I see this on other forums and now I see it here all the time. A few of you are constantly incorrecting other people. I don't care that you people, and I assume you don't know who you are, do it, but you're going to get absolutely savaged by the other people here pretty soon and those of you that engage in this know-it-all-while-being-wrong behavior will wonder what you did to deserve it.

Then we'll tell you.

Then you'll go WELL ACTUALLY
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odyssia76
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by odyssia76 »

Tdarcos wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:25 pm "Don't buy individual stocks, go buy this fund which is made up of individual stocks."
Not quite.
[/quote]

Yes, quite. But thanks for explaining index funds to me, I hadn't known any of that. 🙄. Your explanation is correct but unnecessary, it just took you 3 paragraphs to repeat what I had said. It's a tad condescending. Though I guess it could have been informative to others.
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odyssia76
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by odyssia76 »

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:52 pm Ok, good point, I see my error now when I specified that a fund was made up of a lot of stocks and you corrected me to state that a fund is made up of a lot of stocks.
🤣😂🤣😂
Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:52 pm Serious question - do you all think this BBS has a bad case of the "know it alls?"
Oh, my, yes. Most definitely. But don't be too hard on Tdarcos. Even though it was pretty egregiously eye-rolling in this instance, the silver lining of know-it-alls is that they do know stuff. Maybe not as much as they think, but sometimes they do give some new information. It's at least theoretically possible to learn something from a know-it-all.

And to be honest, everyone here does it to some extent, just some more than others. At least the people here are mostly intelligent, even when they're wrong. While know-it-alls can be annoying, I'd still rather be surrounded by them than by plain old dumbasses.
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odyssia76
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by odyssia76 »

Casual Observer wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:29 pm I can call anyone's cell phone I want anytime I want as often as I want and they can't do shit about it.
People with that kind of attitude are not people I want calling me or doing business with, since clearly the convenience and desires of the potential customer are only secondary considerations. I would almost sertainly hang up on you. I do business with people who care what I think and feel.
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Ice Cream Jonsey
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

odyssia76 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:39 am
Casual Observer wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:29 pm I can call anyone's cell phone I want anytime I want as often as I want and they can't do shit about it.
People with that kind of attitude are not people I want calling me or doing business with, since clearly the convenience and desires of the potential customer are only secondary considerations. I would almost sertainly hang up on you. I do business with people who care what I think and feel.
It is a little bizarre. CO, you encounter getting your number blocked pretty often, right?
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Casual Observer »

odyssia76 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:39 amI do business with people who care what I think and feel.
How sweet. That's not how the real world works, honey.

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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Casual Observer »

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:05 pm
odyssia76 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:39 am
Casual Observer wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:29 pm I can call anyone's cell phone I want anytime I want as often as I want and they can't do shit about it.
People with that kind of attitude are not people I want calling me or doing business with, since clearly the convenience and desires of the potential customer are only secondary considerations. I would almost sertainly hang up on you. I do business with people who care what I think and feel.
It is a little bizarre. CO, you encounter getting your number blocked pretty often, right?
Actually, hardly ever over the course of 25 years doing this shit, though you don't usually know if you're blocked as it just doesn't connect. A few weeks ago I thought a guy might have blocked me so I called from my wife's cell and it turned out his phone was indeed off. The worst thing I usually get is "how did you get my cell phone" or once in a great while I'll get a "how dare you call my personal cell phone, how did you even get it" with an air of offense. I just tell them about zoominfo and how they got his number and lie to him that if he goes to the website he can probably take himself out of the db. One time, in my first job doing this, I called this guy at Hyundai so many times he finally said, "look, I will never ever work with your company" and that kind of stung but it really only works to call people again until they speak to you and give you a reason for no.

There are some people who hate taking cold calls, like Odyssa over there, and that's ok. If she worked for a company I wanted to target and she held a role that would be involved in buying (doesn't sound like that's the case with her) what I'm selling then if she doesn't take my calls that's ok because someone else on the team will and eventually I'll either "get to the no" from someone who knows what they're talking about or get an appointment, that's it it's going to happen.

There's a whole debate about cell phones on LinkedIn, whether it's ok to call them, and the answer is fuck yeah especially after the Pandemic. When everyone's working from home for 2 years, how else are peeps supposed to sell shit?

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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

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Ecchh.
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

Do ya get an extra kick when it is a landline?
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Tdarcos »

Casual Observer wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:29 pm
odyssia76 wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:19 am Ethical ways would be things like advertising and opt-in stuff.
No, they don't have to opt in for me to call them. That's for marketing losers.
1. Wrong. 2. Untrue. If someone is on the do not call list, you cannot call them unless you have a prior business relationship. It does not matter whether the call was placed by an individual or a machine. You're supposed to subscribe to, and use, the do not call databases. You get the first 5 area codes free, then after that you have to purchase a subscription. See https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busines ... isions-tsr
Casual Observer wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:29 pm
odyssia76 wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:19 am Do you run the numbers through the national "do not call" registry?
Absolutely not. I'm not selling car extended warrantees here, I'm calling titles and roles, not people so "do not call" does not apply.

Actually, "do not call" only applies to using an autodialer to call someone's cell phone
Wrong, it applies to all telemarketing calls with limited exceptions not applicable here.
Casual Observer wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:29 pm, which is supposedly prohibited but companies do it all the time still. If I'm dialing manually, I can call anyone's cell phone I want anytime I want as often as I want and they can't do shit about it.
Wrong and wrong. First, the "big boys" who pull this shit are doing land office business calling volumes and a $1,000,000 fine or even larger is just the cost of doing business. And repeatedly calling someone is the classic definition of harassment, which can get your phone service terminated (no big deal, open a new account) and jail time (not a good idea.)

If you took 30 seconds to look up "what is the do not call law" it would have shown links for both the FCC and the FTC. And the instructions are very clear.
Federal Trade Commission wrote:The Registry only contains phone numbers, no other personally identifiable information, and we do not keep a record of whether the numbers are land line or cell phones.

There are some exemptions to the Do Not Call rules. Because of the limits to FTC’s authority, the Registry does not apply to political calls or calls from non-profits and charities (but the Registry does cover telemarketers calling on behalf of charities). Also, calls from legitimate “survey” organizations are not covered because they are not offering to sell anything to consumers. Finally, calls are permitted from companies with which you have done or sought to do business.
While they are probably mostly going after egregious violators, all it takes is to piss off the wrong person who wants payback. If you get caught, fines can be up to $40,000 per call. (Whether that violates the 8th Amendment is an issue I won't bother with right now.) Plus the persons you called can sue you in small claims court. "Consumers who have been subjected to TCPA violations may be able to sue for between $500 to $1,500 per violation, according to NBC News."

Sources:
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-r ... nforcement
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-set ... iolations/

You may think you can get away with it, and that might be true, for a while. But all it takes is one mistake, and you're in trouble. Now comes telephone harassment, which is a state matter. I'll pick a few.

- -- -- -
Under Oklahoma statute § 21-1172, it is unlawful to make obscene or lewd comments or requests or to otherwise harass a person using any means of telephonic or electronic communication. This includes any communication that is intended to intimidate or threaten someone
First offense is a misdemeanor, second is a felony

- -- -- -
2005 Arizona Revised Statutes - Revised Statutes §13-2916 Use of telephone to terrify, intimidate, threaten, harass, annoy or offend; classification

A. It is unlawful for any person, with intent to terrify, intimidate, threaten, harass, annoy or offend, to use a telephone and use any obscene, lewd or profane language or suggest any lewd or lascivious act, or threaten to inflict physical harm to the person or property of any person. It is also unlawful to otherwise disturb by repeated anonymous telephone calls the peace, quiet or right of privacy of any person at the place where the telephone call or calls were received.

B. Any offense committed by use of a telephone as set forth in this section is deemed to have been committed at either the place where the telephone call or calls originated or at the place where the telephone call or calls were received.

C. Any person who violates this section is guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor.

- -- -- -
Florida Title XXVII RAILROADS AND OTHER REGULATED UTILITIES
365.16 Obscene or harassing telephone calls.—
(1) Whoever:
(b) Makes a telephone call, whether or not conversation ensues, without disclosing his or her identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person at the called number;
(2) Whoever knowingly permits any telephone under his or her control to be used for any purpose prohibited by this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. (This means it's a max. of only 60 days and/or a $500 fine. For each call.)
- -- -- -

Typically, a "Class 1 Misdemeanor" means the maximum fine that isn't a felony, anywhere from $1,500 to $10,000, depending on the state, plus a maximum of 1 year in jail.

Most of these are similar, meaning you can be prosecuted both by the state where the call is answered and where it is made. It's up to you whether you think you can get away with it, please stop saying, or thinking, that it's legal, or there are no consequences.
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Casual Observer
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Casual Observer »

Tdarcos wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:20 pm
Casual Observer wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:29 pm
odyssia76 wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:19 am Ethical ways would be things like advertising and opt-in stuff.
No, they don't have to opt in for me to call them. That's for marketing losers.
1. Wrong. 2. Untrue. If someone is on the do not call list, you cannot call them unless you have a prior business relationship. It does not matter whether the call was placed by an individual or a machine. You're supposed to subscribe to, and use, the do not call databases. You get the first 5 area codes free, then after that you have to purchase a subscription. See https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busines ... isions-tsr
Casual Observer wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:29 pm
odyssia76 wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:19 am Do you run the numbers through the national "do not call" registry?
Absolutely not. I'm not selling car extended warrantees here, I'm calling titles and roles, not people so "do not call" does not apply.

Actually, "do not call" only applies to using an autodialer to call someone's cell phone
Wrong, it applies to all telemarketing calls with limited exceptions not applicable here.
Casual Observer wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:29 pm, which is supposedly prohibited but companies do it all the time still. If I'm dialing manually, I can call anyone's cell phone I want anytime I want as often as I want and they can't do shit about it.
Wrong and wrong. First, the "big boys" who pull this shit are doing land office business calling volumes and a $1,000,000 fine or even larger is just the cost of doing business. And repeatedly calling someone is the classic definition of harassment, which can get your phone service terminated (no big deal, open a new account) and jail time (not a good idea.)

If you took 30 seconds to look up "what is the do not call law" it would have shown links for both the FCC and the FTC. And the instructions are very clear.
Federal Trade Commission wrote:The Registry only contains phone numbers, no other personally identifiable information, and we do not keep a record of whether the numbers are land line or cell phones.

There are some exemptions to the Do Not Call rules. Because of the limits to FTC’s authority, the Registry does not apply to political calls or calls from non-profits and charities (but the Registry does cover telemarketers calling on behalf of charities). Also, calls from legitimate “survey” organizations are not covered because they are not offering to sell anything to consumers. Finally, calls are permitted from companies with which you have done or sought to do business.
While they are probably mostly going after egregious violators, all it takes is to piss off the wrong person who wants payback. If you get caught, fines can be up to $40,000 per call. (Whether that violates the 8th Amendment is an issue I won't bother with right now.) Plus the persons you called can sue you in small claims court. "Consumers who have been subjected to TCPA violations may be able to sue for between $500 to $1,500 per violation, according to NBC News."

Sources:
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-r ... nforcement
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-set ... iolations/

You may think you can get away with it, and that might be true, for a while. But all it takes is one mistake, and you're in trouble. Now comes telephone harassment, which is a state matter. I'll pick a few.

- -- -- -
Under Oklahoma statute § 21-1172, it is unlawful to make obscene or lewd comments or requests or to otherwise harass a person using any means of telephonic or electronic communication. This includes any communication that is intended to intimidate or threaten someone
First offense is a misdemeanor, second is a felony

- -- -- -
2005 Arizona Revised Statutes - Revised Statutes §13-2916 Use of telephone to terrify, intimidate, threaten, harass, annoy or offend; classification

A. It is unlawful for any person, with intent to terrify, intimidate, threaten, harass, annoy or offend, to use a telephone and use any obscene, lewd or profane language or suggest any lewd or lascivious act, or threaten to inflict physical harm to the person or property of any person. It is also unlawful to otherwise disturb by repeated anonymous telephone calls the peace, quiet or right of privacy of any person at the place where the telephone call or calls were received.

B. Any offense committed by use of a telephone as set forth in this section is deemed to have been committed at either the place where the telephone call or calls originated or at the place where the telephone call or calls were received.

C. Any person who violates this section is guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor.

- -- -- -
Florida Title XXVII RAILROADS AND OTHER REGULATED UTILITIES
365.16 Obscene or harassing telephone calls.—
(1) Whoever:
(b) Makes a telephone call, whether or not conversation ensues, without disclosing his or her identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person at the called number;
(2) Whoever knowingly permits any telephone under his or her control to be used for any purpose prohibited by this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. (This means it's a max. of only 60 days and/or a $500 fine. For each call.)
- -- -- -

Typically, a "Class 1 Misdemeanor" means the maximum fine that isn't a felony, anywhere from $1,500 to $10,000, depending on the state, plus a maximum of 1 year in jail.

Most of these are similar, meaning you can be prosecuted both by the state where the call is answered and where it is made. It's up to you whether you think you can get away with it, please stop saying, or thinking, that it's legal, or there are no consequences.
Dude, I've been in this game for decades. home landlines are protected along with cells from autodialers, i know my shit.

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odyssia76
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by odyssia76 »

Casual Observer wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:36 pm
odyssia76 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:39 amI do business with people who care what I think and feel.
How sweet. That's not how the real world works, honey.
Yes, it is, kid. You're just not enlightened enough to see it. Maybe someday.
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odyssia76
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by odyssia76 »

Casual Observer wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:25 am Dude, I've been in this game for decades. home landlines are protected along with cells from autodialers, i know my shit.
It looks like you don't. Tdarcos posted the relevant law from the relevant agency. It seems pretty crystal clear. Which parts do you disagree with, and what is your supporting evidence to dispute his?
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Casual Observer »

odyssia76 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:46 pm
Casual Observer wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:36 pm
odyssia76 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:39 amI do business with people who care what I think and feel.
How sweet. That's not how the real world works, honey.
Yes, it is, kid. You're just not enlightened enough to see it. Maybe someday.
Yeah, no. If you were in a position to make decisions regarding purchasing software for a company then you would be expected to make that decision for the best interests of the company, not your feelings. The company doesn't give a shit that you don't want to take cold calls, they would however care if your weird hangup cost them the right solution to grow revenue which is actually the only thing companies care about.

Also, I'm sure the kid at wendys who served you food (before you pointed a homeless guy to a job he couldn't get) really really cared about your feelings that day. I'm sure the internet provider that you deal with to get onto this site really cares about your how you feel that they kept you on hold for a half hour and then the indian guy on the line wouldn't budge about your issue. Unfortunately for us, this country is capitalism, not care bear land.

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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Casual Observer »

odyssia76 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:57 pm
Casual Observer wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:25 am Dude, I've been in this game for decades. home landlines are protected along with cells from autodialers, i know my shit.
It looks like you don't. Tdarcos posted the relevant law from the relevant agency. It seems pretty crystal clear. Which parts do you disagree with, and what is your supporting evidence to dispute his?
FTC wrote:The National Do Not Call Registry is a list of phone numbers from consumers who have indicated their preference
Unfortunately, Odyssia, you don't have the historical knowledge about how bad tDarcos is at understanding ANYTHING and is absolutely wrong about EVERYTHING to the point we don't even read half of his posts. But since you think it's "crystal clear" then maybe your reading comprehension skills should be questioned also. The first line of the FTC's fact sheet states that the law is protecting . . . Consumers. I'll say again: Consumers.

The law is for consumer calls, not business to business. As stated, I'm calling titles and roles not people, certainly not CONSUMERS. I'm not hawking car extended warrantees, I'm selling enterprise software to companies. The people in companies are not people, they are representatives of companies (watch the movie The Big Kahuna for an explanation of this point of view). By very definition, the people I'm calling on are not the conusmers of what I"m offering, they are simply representatives of a company that could consume what I'm offering, fucking huge difference. Don't worry, though, I'm sure you're not in charge of purchasing anything I'll be selling so no need to cold call you (unless you shock the hell out of us and say that, no, you're actually a VP of Sales Engineering, or in charge of Application Security or Finance or Marketing).

I challenge tDarcos to come up with a single lawsuit or charge brought against a company doing Business to Business telemarketing ever over the DNC list.
Last edited by Casual Observer on Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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odyssia76
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by odyssia76 »

Casual Observer wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:03 pm
Yeah, no. If you were in a position to make decisions regarding purchasing software for a company then you would be expected to make that decision for the best interests of the company, not your feelings.

Yeah, yes. The thing good employers care about is doing business with reputable, honest companies, not pushy liars. So that decision is absolutely in the best interest of the company. "We don't work with douchebags" is pretty standard.
Casual Observer wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:03 pm company doesn't give a shit that you don't want to take cold calls, they would however care if your weird hangup cost them the right solution to grow revenue which is actually the only thing companies care about.
Kid, if you actually knew anything about running a real business, you would be doing that instead of being a freelance boiler room phone slime.
Casual Observer wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:03 pm Unfortunately for us, this country is capitalism, not care bear land.
Unfortunately for us, this country is filled with morons who believe stupid shit like "you have to be an abusive asshole to succeed in capitalism."
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Re: JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

Post by Casual Observer »

odyssia76 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:24 pm
Casual Observer wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:03 pm
Yeah, no. If you were in a position to make decisions regarding purchasing software for a company then you would be expected to make that decision for the best interests of the company, not your feelings.
Yeah, yes. The thing good employers care about is doing business with reputable, honest companies, not pushy liars. So that decision is absolutely in the best interest of the company. "We don't work with douchebags" is pretty standard.



Kid, if you actually knew anything about running a real business, you would be doing that instead of being a freelance boiler room phone slime.



Unfortunately for us, this country is filled with morons who believe stupid shit like "you have to be an abusive asshole to succeed in capitalism."
Wow, such hostility combined with screwing up a bbs quote, congrats. Here, I fixed it for you.
ody wrote: Yeah, yes. The thing good employers care about is doing business with reputable, honest companies, not pushy liars. So that decision is absolutely in the best interest of the company. "We don't work with douchebags" is pretty standard.
B2B cold calling isn't about lying, in fact it's the opposite. I call someone and in the first 15 seconds I tell them who I am, what company i'm calling from, and why I'm calling. Not sure where the lies fit in there.
ody wrote:Kid, if you actually knew anything about running a real business, you would be doing that instead of being a freelance boiler room phone slime.
Oh, it's not a real business yet, you betcha, it's a 2 person consultancy working for 3 clients. It's incorporated and has a US tax ID so in that sense it's a real business though. Good dig though, you <tDarcos Word Generator></tDarcos Word Generator>. - there, fixed :)
ody wrote:Unfortunately for us, this country is filled with morons who believe stupid shit like "you have to be an abusive asshole to succeed in capitalism.
sorry you're such a fucking fragile snowflake that receiving a phone call is considered "abuse". OK, millineal.
Last edited by Casual Observer on Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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