NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Sports & Music

Moderators: Ice Cream Jonsey, AArdvark

User avatar
Flack
Posts: 7871
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by Flack »

Over the weekend, actress Evan Rachel Wood announced to the world that her former fiancé, Marilyn Manson, was a bad guy. She has claimed multiple times in the past that she was sexually and physically abused and hinted that Manson was her abuser, but this is the first time that she has called him out by name. Among other things, she claims that she was "groomed" by Manson to become his sex slave.

I'm not sure who on the planet didn't know that Marilyn Manson was a weirdo, but here's a brief history. Manson's stage name came from combining the name of a model with the name of a serial killer. His major label debut contained a poem written by Charles Manson. One of Marilyn Manson's early gimmicks was to cut himself on stage. Marilyn Manson is a minister in the Church of Satan, met with Anton LaVey multiple times, and wrote the forward for LaVey's last book. In his autobiography, which I have sitting right here, he talks about the time he and his guitarist "smoked human bones they found in a cemetery." At one point, Trent Reznor, the founder of Nine Inch Nails, said Marilyn Manson was too weird and creepy for him. To put that in perspective, Trent Reznor bought Sharon Tate's old house (where the Manson murders took place) and recorded an album there. THAT GUY said Marilyn Manson was too weird!

There are two arguments to be made here -- one, that Brian Warner and Marilyn Manson are not the same person, and two, a discussion we've had in the past, can you separate the artist from the art?

As for the first... I don't want to sound overly dramatic, but I wonder how much of Brian Warner is left at this point? You can make a case that what Manson does on stage is different from his off stage persona, but when he acts the same way off stage as on stage... can you? There's a story in Manson's autobiography about a groupie who showed up to the recording studio that the band convinced to get naked, cover herself with meat (ham and hot dogs, mostly) and then let the band take turns pissing on her. This was not on stage, or part of a show -- this was a bunch of guys just, you know, peeing on some girl covered in lunchmeat. Is that something Marilyn Manson did, or Brian Warner? Dita Von Teese, Manson's second wife, summed it up the best after their divorce: "It was difficult, because I was trying to get him help for his problems, and eventually I realized that he didn’t want help."

I hate to even bring up the second topic because we've done it already, but earlier today Marilyn Manson was dropped from his record label. Being accused during the #meToo era is quite possibly the worst thing that can happen to your career. Marilyn Manson once plopped his dick out onstage and started pissing on the crowd, paid a couple thousand dollar fine, and was on his way. Accuse someone of vague abuse 12 years prior, and there goes the ol' career. Will Manson bounce back? Of course. (I'd be surprised if there's not a bidding war at the moment trying to scoop him up.) Marilyn Manson once sold his own brand of Absinthe called Mansinthe (literally, it was 66.6% proof -- you can't make this up!) and said it goes best with "lots of cocaine" and nobody blinked an eye. It's amazing that one tweet could affect his career so greatly.

I'm sure more details will come out about this Evan Rachel Wood situation, but based on what I've read, Manson began "grooming" her when she was 18, and they hooked up when she was 19. 18, for the record, is the legal age of consent in most states. Wood, for her part, hooked up with Manson while he was married to Von Teese, which starts the relation off on shaky ground in my book. Again I don't know the details and maybe things are worse than are being reported, but... if you seek out a Reverend in the Church of Satan who does massive amounts of coke, cuts himself on stage, and has set out to be the world's most depraved and shocking entertainer... is it all that surprising that the guy was, in fact, depraved and shocking? I'm trying very hard not to victim blame here, but if the victim is a willing participant... are they a victim? It's a complicated issue for me. If I started hanging out with someone and they suggested I take my clothes off and cover myself with lunchmeat while they piss on me, that's a "no" from me, dog. To me this is like one of the guys from Jackass suing the show for making them do things on the show 12 years after it was cancelled.

All is this is made much simpler by the fact that I haven't bought a Marilyn Manson since the 90s.
"Jack Flack always escapes." -Davey Osborne

User avatar
pinback
Posts: 15877
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2002 3:00 pm
Contact:

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by pinback »

I dunno, but catch me having deli sandwiches at his place!
In the yard, not too far from the car.

User avatar
RealNC
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:32 am

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by RealNC »

Flack wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:17 amAmong other things, she claims that she was "groomed" by Manson to become his sex slave.
Sex slaves are groomed? What kind of pussy ass slavery is that?

User avatar
Flack
Posts: 7871
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by Flack »

This may be lost in translation, but "grooming" someone for sex is typically associated with older men befriending young/underaged girls in an attempt to lure them into a relationship. My problem with the story is that Wood was 18 when she met Marilyn Manson, who was twice her age at 36. Is that weird? Sure. Is it illegal? No, not in the US. Was it weird when a 25 year old Anna Nicole Smith hooked up with (and later married) an 86-year-old oil tycoon? Sure. Was it illegal? No. Marilyn Manson's real-life behavior is cringey and long documented. Hopping on his tour bus and expecting a normal experience is foolish.
"Jack Flack always escapes." -Davey Osborne

User avatar
bryanb
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:56 pm

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by bryanb »

I would say if Marilyn Manson/Brian Warner really raped, beat, and/or held Evan Rachel Wood against her will, he's simply a dangerous and violent criminal and should be treated as such. As is often the case, the situation is murky. It's not 100% clear if abuse Wood has talked about in the past was all inflicted by Manson even if many people are assuming that's the case. Manson is of course saying everything that happened was consensual, and that might really be true. We're not a jury and this isn't a criminal case. Still, from what I've heard I don't really see anything to blame Wood for. Would it have been prudent for her to avoid Manson based on his notoriety? Sure, but that's easier to see in retrospect. Wood might have thought Marilyn Manson was 100% an image or an act and that Brian Warner was really a good guy. Slayer did a song about Josef Mengele that some people thought was sympathetic. I don't see them as bad guys. John Carpenter and Wes Craven directed horror movies while still being tremendous human beings by most accounts. It's not unusual for an artist to explore dark topics without being evil or to manufacture an image to gain fame that isn't 100% or even 10% real. I wouldn't blame Evan Rachel Wood for getting sucked into Manson's web. A guy who presents himself as a rapist and actually rapes people isn't better than someone who doesn't present themselves as a rapist and actually rapes people.

I was never into Manson's music, but I did enjoy his interviews with Bill O'Reilly. Those were two messed up guys who found each other and did beautiful work together. My main hesitation about cancel culture is that I do think bad or complex or troubled people can and often do contribute to society. If society has to be protected from certain of those individuals, ideally it should be done in a way that still lets these people contribute. If Manson is a rapist and a violent abuser, then he should absolutely be incarcerated. But he should be incarcerated in such a way that denies him access to new victims but also lets him keep making music and a living. Perhaps he could even have a talk show with future cellmate Bill?

User avatar
Ice Cream Jonsey
Posts: 25266
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2002 2:44 pm
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

Look at this guy give Mansons everywhere a bad name!
the dark and gritty...Ice Cream Jonsey!

User avatar
The Happiness Engine
Posts: 868
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:16 pm

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by The Happiness Engine »

I haven't bothered to try to figure out WHO this was referring to, but I once read that Manson's girlfriend was nicknamed "Snowflake" because she was the one who held the coke during concerts.


To be fair, Mansinthe was actually a pretty good product. You could do worse in your absinthe purchases!

User avatar
AArdvark
Posts: 11261
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 6:12 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by AArdvark »

What would a comparison to Alice Cooper be like? I understand he was a pretty messed up guy before he cleaned up

User avatar
Jizaboz
Posts: 3213
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:00 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by Jizaboz »

I liked Charlie, but I never liked this motherfucker.

Over-rated music, over bloated ego, and his interest in the occult can best be summed up by Aardvark's review of I Shot the Sheriff by Eric Clapton: "Bitch, please."

My favorite artist I that I actually got to know ersonally a bit was Dave Brockie. The closer I got to him I realized that him and his monster persona in GWAR were indeed in fact the same person. I don't know if that is the same for all but it was for him. When he died I was disappointed.. but you don't really have to look any further than the lyrics of the song "Destroyed" to get the answers.

User avatar
Tdarcos
Posts: 7656
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Arlington, Virginia
Contact:

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by Tdarcos »

Flack wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:17 am Manson began "grooming" her when she was 18, and they hooked up when she was 19. 18, for the record, is the legal age of consent in most states.
Wrong. 18 is the age of consent in 13 states, in 7 the age of consent is 17, and in 30 states and the District of Columbia, the age of consent is 16.

So, actually, for the record, the age of consent in most states is 16.
Flack wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:17 amWood, for her part, hooked up with Manson while he was married to Von Teese, which starts the relation off on shaky ground in my book.
A woman getting involved with a married man? That's gotta be extremely rare; let's see, we only have Bill Clinton, Ted Turñer, Prince Charles, Rod Stewart...
Flack wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:17 am I'm trying very hard not to victim blame here, but if the victim is a willing participant... are they a victim?
It was Camile Paglia, who said that, yes, women should be able to, and admit they are willing to explore their sexuality, but the freedom comes with responsibility, e.g. if you are not interested in being intimate with a man, you do not go alone with him to his hotel room. This does not excuse a man committing rape on an unwilling participant, but, clearly, if you're not interested at all you should decline his invitation.

If she was 19 at the time she isn't some dewy-eyed innocent. Let's not forget that some women like bad boys, and are actually turned on by the danger and the adrenaline rush. As Paglia noted, at some point a woman must take responsibility for her own actions. If women want freedom to act of their own accord, they also have to take responsibility for the consequences of that freedom.
Flack wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:17 amTo me this is like one of the guys from Jackass suing the show for making them do things on the show 12 years after it was cancelled
I that's not a fictional example, a suit like that gets tossed, fast, because at most they have three years to sue for damages; in some states it is less than that.
"Perhaps she'll understand, if you tell it to her, plain."
- Don McLean, Castles in the Air

Casual Observer
Posts: 2321
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:23 pm
Location: Everett, WA, 2 blocks from where the Green River Killer picked them up

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by Casual Observer »

Jizaboz wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:46 pmI liked Charlie, but I never liked this motherfucker.
Wait, you like a murderous cultist better than this guy? Weirdo.
Jizaboz wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:46 pmGWAR. . . the lyrics of the song "Destroyed"
I didn't realize that they had actual lyrics in their songs, always thought they were just a costumed gag stage act.

User avatar
Jizaboz
Posts: 3213
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:00 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by Jizaboz »


Casual Observer
Posts: 2321
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:23 pm
Location: Everett, WA, 2 blocks from where the Green River Killer picked them up

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by Casual Observer »

Jizaboz wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:01 am Hahah look man.. I'm really not trying to rib you here but this picture shows exactly why I think you and I never got along in the beginning, but we are starting to.

You listen to those cable music channels maaaan?!?!?! 2020 Jazz instead of something like some 1991 Katsumi Horri.. arghahghghg I'm outta here!
????

So this guy who criticizes listening to Music Choice listens to and posts about fucking GWAR? GWAR had not a stitch of talent with music.

User avatar
AArdvark
Posts: 11261
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 6:12 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by AArdvark »

What was that video? It looked like the Banana Splits on acid

THE
NO SOUND
AARDAVRK

User avatar
Jizaboz
Posts: 3213
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:00 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by Jizaboz »

Yeah whatever CO. Mike Dirks is a fantastic guitar player. Gwar has good songs. But they are much like Devo.. Devo had gimmicks but it had many more killer songs than Whip It.

Casual Observer
Posts: 2321
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:23 pm
Location: Everett, WA, 2 blocks from where the Green River Killer picked them up

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by Casual Observer »

Jizaboz wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:08 pm Yeah whatever CO. Mike Dirks is a fantastic guitar player. Gwar has good songs. But they are much like Devo.. Devo had gimmicks but it had many more killer songs than Whip It.
Ok. So it takes something like the below video for me to even be able to listen to GWAR for more than a few seconds. For Jizz sake I tried, video after video I had to keep skipping the bar forward until the end.

Please to be explaining what guitar magic is going on that doesn't happen with thousands of bands and cover bands. You knew the guy, great. Christ, I ate dinner next to Carlos Santana and he's a great guitar player AND batshit crazy but at least I can stand to listen to his shit.


User avatar
Jizaboz
Posts: 3213
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:00 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by Jizaboz »

The guy I barely knew was the singer. Dirks is the guy with the can opener with horns thing on his head. Probably the best example is a track where he is the only one on guitar. This would be DBX.. but DBX was 3 guys from gwar with no costumes and different songs. Nothing too fancy.. I just like the sound and style.


User avatar
bryanb
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:56 pm

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by bryanb »

CO, did you happen to come across Ragnarok during your YouTube searching? If you don't like typical GWAR, you might still enjoy that song. They're just being goofballs and having fun. The melody is catchy and the guitar work is good. What's not to like? Another bonus is you can annoy the hardcore fans by telling them it's your favorite GWAR song/album. (I think Jizaboz will forgive us.)

User avatar
Jizaboz
Posts: 3213
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:00 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by Jizaboz »

bryanb wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:30 am CO, did you happen to come across Ragnarok during your YouTube searching? If you don't like typical GWAR, you might still enjoy that song. They're just being goofballs and having fun. The melody is catchy and the guitar work is good. What's not to like? Another bonus is you can annoy the hardcore fans by telling them it's your favorite GWAR song/album. (I think Jizaboz will forgive us.)
SLAY THEM ALL let them come (first song from that album)

Haha cool to hear you know that one. I had a Ragnarok poster hanging in my room for years. Wasn’t my favorite album but it had some good songs such as good ol Meat Sandwich.
Last edited by Jizaboz on Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Jizaboz
Posts: 3213
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:00 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: NEWS FLASH: Marilyn Manson is a BAD GUY

Post by Jizaboz »

ANYWAY back to Mr.. “Manson”. Anyone else recall various stories of him bitching out and quitting a show because the show “wasn’t cool” or wtf ever Billy Corgan style? He always tried so hard to be scary. Nothing about this clown is scary.

I hope these chicks and their lawyers throw the book at him lol

Post Reply