by Finsternis » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:49 am
bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pm
I really don't think he had some master plan that involved you spending weeks engaging in endless and pointless flame wars with Paul and other users and would culminate in him trying to insult you off the board. Who would actually want that?
Meh, he probably didn't plan it that carefully, no. But neither did he do anything nice or "friendly" to make me feel welcome, either, like, say, post a simple introduction saying "this is my friend, say hi" because that would revel something about himself, which is verboten. I do think while he may not have specifically
planned for this to happen, I think he expected it and did nothing to prevent it. I also think he is enjoying it.
bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pmWe're all admittedly hypocrites because we've all gotten into it with Paul in the past and haven't always been kind in the process
Yes, you have, and yes, you are all hypocrites for it. But I don't buy for one minute all the pious protestations that Paul is such a good friend. If he was, you wouldn't all be cheering him on and encouraging him to speed towards what will be a horrible, miserable death. Fuck, Jonesy
bought him a giant bag of poison just to piss me off - some friend! Helping kill him just to make a point with someone else! I guess that, as he loses more limbs, his sight, and whatever eventually kills him, his last thoughts while he lies insensate and motionless in a hospital bed in a shitty hospital being badly cared for, his last thought will be "Thanks, Jonesy, for the candy!" So while you may all consider it a big joke, spare me the holier-than-thou "we love him" bullshit. Friends don't kill their friends.
bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pm
Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:01 pm
If you want to lecture me about netiquette, here's one basic rule you really need to learn: it's a really dumb idea to make assumptions about people's lives based on things they post.
I'd say Finsternis is all you, even if he's a character or an art project.
So, you didn't even read what I wrote at all. I see.
You base this deep psychological profile of me based on.... what? Your deep personal knowledge of me? The endless hours we've spent hanging out? Do you even know my real first name, or would you have to ask Ben or Jonesy? Sorry if I laugh at your attempt at armchair psychology.
Remote armchair psychology, even worse!
bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pmYou may very well act differently online and offline...in fact, I'd say you'd HAVE to act differently offline just to keep your marriage and career going.
In fact, I can even
act different ways in different places online! I'm amazing that way!
bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pmThat doesn't mean the online you isn't just as real as the offline you.
I'm rolling my eyes. See above about amateur psychology. You literally don't know the first thing about me.
bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pmIt's all the same guy, isn't it?
Well, let's see - do you act the same way around your mom as around your best buds when you're out drinking? Do you act the same way around your co workers as with your girlfriend? Does anyone ever act exactly the same way at all times?
bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pmIf you actually haven't been intellectually honest with us and have been posting stuff you don't really believe in just to get reactions out of people, that's a different story...you'd just be a garden variety troll in that case.
I assure you that when I say things i don't truly believe, that will be obvious in context, assuming you are aware of various rhetorical devices such as sarcasm, hyperbole, etc.
bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pmWhat I don't understand is what you get out of all the contention.
One of the infinite number of things you don't know about me is that not only do I not seek conflict, I try to avoid it when possible. While Paul is wrong when he says that it is
never a good way to convince someone, it is
usually a
better idea to
start conversations without
trying to
create conflict.
bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pm Does you telling someone they're dumb and you're smart actually make you feel smart? Does that really work?
I already know I'm smart; I don't need anyone's validation for that. Or anything else.
bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pm When you want to engage in polite discussion you can be perfectly reasonable.
You probably won't believe it, but that is by far the greatest percentage of my online posts and persona. It's rare that I encounter someone like Paul who is so adamantly opposed to accept new ways of looking at things who is not a right-wing conservative and/or religious nutbag. But I have pet peeves like anyone else and it is possible, though difficult, to push my buttons, especially if I'm in a bad mood. Perhaps it all just got off on the wrong foot, I thought a nice philosophical conversation about the nature of mind and consciousness and fate might be a gentle start. Perhaps it would have worked out differently, perhaps not. Perhaps I was enraged by Paul because even though he isn't trained well in philosophy, he thinks he is.
I was disappointed by the fact that he is at least aware of some very basic concepts and might have been happy to have some constructive criticism by someone who knew more about it than him, but it didn't work out that way. He insisted that the only things that exist - that
can exist - are things he is aware of, and that things could only possibly be the way he thought they were. Very, very bad signs for anyone who is trying to talk intelligently about philosophy. I tried to jar him into thinking more deeply, but he was a lot more concerned with defending his invalid points than considering any other perspectives. That irked me.
bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pm If you were a true gadfly, you'd be trying to shock people into trying to think differently, but your anger and mockery tends to disrupt and end intelligent conversations rather than spark or encourage them.
And you don't think mockery is a type of shock? Interesting.
[quote=bryanb post_id=110509 time=1592110577 user_id=2003]
I really don't think he had some master plan that involved you spending weeks engaging in endless and pointless flame wars with Paul and other users and would culminate in him trying to insult you off the board. Who would actually want that?[/quote]
Meh, he probably didn't plan it that carefully, no. But neither did he do anything nice or "friendly" to make me feel welcome, either, like, say, post a simple introduction saying "this is my friend, say hi" because that would revel something about himself, which is verboten. I do think while he may not have specifically [i]planned[/i] for this to happen, I think he expected it and did nothing to prevent it. I also think he is enjoying it.
[quote=bryanb post_id=110509 time=1592110577 user_id=2003]We're all admittedly hypocrites because we've all gotten into it with Paul in the past and haven't always been kind in the process[/quote]
Yes, you have, and yes, you are all hypocrites for it. But I don't buy for one minute all the pious protestations that Paul is such a good friend. If he was, you wouldn't all be cheering him on and encouraging him to speed towards what will be a horrible, miserable death. Fuck, Jonesy [u][i]bought him a giant bag of poison[/i][/u] [i]just to piss me off[/i] - some friend! Helping kill him just to make a point with someone else! I guess that, as he loses more limbs, his sight, and whatever eventually kills him, his last thoughts while he lies insensate and motionless in a hospital bed in a shitty hospital being badly cared for, his last thought will be "Thanks, Jonesy, for the candy!" So while you may all consider it a big joke, spare me the holier-than-thou "we love him" bullshit. Friends don't kill their friends.
[quote=bryanb post_id=110509 time=1592110577 user_id=2003]
[quote=Finsternis post_id=110458 time=1592028062 user_id=149]
If you want to lecture me about netiquette, here's one basic rule you really need to learn: it's a really dumb idea to make assumptions about people's lives based on things they post.[/quote]
I'd say Finsternis is all you, even if he's a character or an art project.[/quote]
So, you didn't even read what I wrote at all. I see.
You base this deep psychological profile of me based on.... what? Your deep personal knowledge of me? The endless hours we've spent hanging out? Do you even know my real first name, or would you have to ask Ben or Jonesy? Sorry if I laugh at your attempt at armchair psychology. [i][u]Remote[/u][/i] armchair psychology, even worse!
[quote=bryanb post_id=110509 time=1592110577 user_id=2003]You may very well act differently online and offline...in fact, I'd say you'd HAVE to act differently offline just to keep your marriage and career going.[/quote]
In fact, I can even [i][u]act different ways in different places online[/u][/i]! I'm amazing that way!
[quote=bryanb post_id=110509 time=1592110577 user_id=2003]That doesn't mean the online you isn't just as real as the offline you. [/quote]
I'm rolling my eyes. See above about amateur psychology. You literally don't know the first thing about me.
[quote=bryanb post_id=110509 time=1592110577 user_id=2003]It's all the same guy, isn't it?[/quote]
Well, let's see - do you act the same way around your mom as around your best buds when you're out drinking? Do you act the same way around your co workers as with your girlfriend? Does anyone ever act exactly the same way at all times?
[quote=bryanb post_id=110509 time=1592110577 user_id=2003]If you actually haven't been intellectually honest with us and have been posting stuff you don't really believe in just to get reactions out of people, that's a different story...you'd just be a garden variety troll in that case. [/quote]
I assure you that when I say things i don't truly believe, that will be obvious in context, assuming you are aware of various rhetorical devices such as sarcasm, hyperbole, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmD8y0PJ2Vo
[quote=bryanb post_id=110509 time=1592110577 user_id=2003]What I don't understand is what you get out of all the contention.[/quote]
One of the infinite number of things you don't know about me is that not only do I not seek conflict, I try to avoid it when possible. While Paul is wrong when he says that it is [u][i]never[/i][/u] a good way to convince someone, it is [u][i]usually[/i][/u] a [u][i]better[/i][/u] idea to [u][i]start[/i][/u] conversations without [u][i]trying[/i][/u] to [i][u]create[/u][/i] conflict.
[quote=bryanb post_id=110509 time=1592110577 user_id=2003] Does you telling someone they're dumb and you're smart actually make you feel smart? Does that really work?[/quote]
I already know I'm smart; I don't need anyone's validation for that. Or anything else.
[quote=bryanb post_id=110509 time=1592110577 user_id=2003] When you want to engage in polite discussion you can be perfectly reasonable.[/quote]
You probably won't believe it, but that is by far the greatest percentage of my online posts and persona. It's rare that I encounter someone like Paul who is so adamantly opposed to accept new ways of looking at things who is not a right-wing conservative and/or religious nutbag. But I have pet peeves like anyone else and it is possible, though difficult, to push my buttons, especially if I'm in a bad mood. Perhaps it all just got off on the wrong foot, I thought a nice philosophical conversation about the nature of mind and consciousness and fate might be a gentle start. Perhaps it would have worked out differently, perhaps not. Perhaps I was enraged by Paul because even though he isn't trained well in philosophy, he thinks he is.
I was disappointed by the fact that he is at least aware of some very basic concepts and might have been happy to have some constructive criticism by someone who knew more about it than him, but it didn't work out that way. He insisted that the only things that exist - that [u][i]can[/i][/u] exist - are things he is aware of, and that things could only possibly be the way he thought they were. Very, very bad signs for anyone who is trying to talk intelligently about philosophy. I tried to jar him into thinking more deeply, but he was a lot more concerned with defending his invalid points than considering any other perspectives. That irked me.
[quote=bryanb post_id=110509 time=1592110577 user_id=2003] If you were a true gadfly, you'd be trying to shock people into trying to think differently, but your anger and mockery tends to disrupt and end intelligent conversations rather than spark or encourage them.[/quote]
And you don't think mockery is a type of shock? Interesting.