Adventures in old computers

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Re: Adventures in old computers

by raecoffey » Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:01 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:43 pm STACKER
The REAL Real Man wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:02 pm Jonsey will remember all to well (if not the drive, the stories of it) my 10 GB 5.25" MFM on which I ran Stacker, which gave me 17 MB. It was literally nearly as slow as my floppy drives. Jonsey, was it my good experience that led you to allow Perry to put Stacker on your HD? (Or was it the hard card that ran the BBS?) Because I remember the quote: "No! Don't point the Stacker at me!"
Ohhhhh you all had good experiences. Wonderous tales. TALES OF WONDER. Every single one of you snakes had a good time having Stacker compress your drives, to give more drive space at the cost of performance.

So I let the pit of vipers into my home.

In a story that will surprise exactly none of you, we ran the hard drive compression application "Stacker" on the original Jolt Country BBS hard drive, and Stacker failed and destroyed all of the bulletin board's data. It was a Great Moment in Computer Programming from decades ago.

To this day I won't run hard drive encryption on my game PC.
ICJ, please read my above new comment above about Eric. It may have gotten lost in all of the computer talk.

Re: Adventures in old computers

by Ice Cream Jonsey » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:43 pm

STACKER
The REAL Real Man wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:02 pm Jonsey will remember all to well (if not the drive, the stories of it) my 10 GB 5.25" MFM on which I ran Stacker, which gave me 17 MB. It was literally nearly as slow as my floppy drives. Jonsey, was it my good experience that led you to allow Perry to put Stacker on your HD? (Or was it the hard card that ran the BBS?) Because I remember the quote: "No! Don't point the Stacker at me!"
Ohhhhh you all had good experiences. Wonderous tales. TALES OF WONDER. Every single one of you snakes had a good time having Stacker compress your drives, to give more drive space at the cost of performance.

So I let the pit of vipers into my home.

In a story that will surprise exactly none of you, we ran the hard drive compression application "Stacker" on the original Jolt Country BBS hard drive, and Stacker failed and destroyed all of the bulletin board's data. It was a Great Moment in Computer Programming from decades ago.

To this day I won't run hard drive encryption on my game PC.

Re: Adventures in old computers

by The REAL Real Man » Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:02 pm

Tdarcos wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:16 am You think a 5 1/2" double-height drive with "only" 6 GB in it is a huge drive with very little capacity, I have a story for you.
Well, to be fair, it's a 2.5" (but it is taller than current ones). My first-ever HD was a 5 MB 5.25"FH, and Jonsey will remember all to well (if not the drive, the stories of it) my 10 GB 5.25" MFM on which I ran Stacker, which gave me 17 MB. It was literally nearly as slow as my floppy drives. Jonsey, was it my good experience that led you to allow Perry to put Stacker on your HD? (Or was it the hard card that ran the BBS?) Because I remember the quote: "No! Don't point the Stacker at me!"

Anyway --

Loved, loved, loved the DEC/CDC drive story -- and the $20,000 controller card. Way back when, pre-Jonsey, I had a friend who worked in the computer room for... crap, can't remember, some mammoth organization in Rochester. He said there was a floor tile that you couldn't step on; if you did, it'd screw up the connection to the drive, which ran underneath, and no one got around to fixing it. They'd run payroll and it would take all night, and they knew simply which tile to walk around. But standard new-person hazing was to tell them that you had to stay in your seat during the whole payroll run; any magnetic interference over the floor tiles, or some BS like that, could throw the whole job off.

First place I worked in Los Angeles had a proper raised-floor computer room. The mainframe was gone, and now corporate IT worked there (I worked for a division, strange rivalry), and they had servers and a couple of AS/400s and some network gear. Me, my servers (and the one AS/400, which was corporate's not mine) lived in closets. Anyway, they left the A/C intact, and when the corp IT guy would step out of his room -- right across from my door, inevitably open -- he'd say, "Ugh, humidity."

That guy was a consultant and acted accordingly. We had problems with their token rings (which intersected with ours), and when I went in to report a problem, he'd try to teach me something. I'd tell him one of their machines was beaconing (for those unfamiliar: Dying a very Shakespearean death), and he'd explain how token rings worked. I'd tell him I knew how token ring networks worked, I had two plus his, so he'd explain beaconing, which I already understood. Finally I realized the fastest way to deal with him was to tell him my problem and let him teach me something I already knew. Sigh.

I did miss out on the good old days, though, of washing machine-sized hard drives!

Aaron

Re: Adventures in old computers

by raecoffey » Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:33 am

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:18 pm
raecoffey wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:23 pm I have a really old apple laptop rigged with windows 10 on it. I haven't opened it up in 2 years and am without a charger, but if Eric had followed through and hired me I was gonna buy a simple old apple charger. Otherwise I'm connecting on my phone 📱, a decent $250 number called Samsung Galaxy A13.
That's really unfortunate about Eric. I guess some people just can't be counted on.
Yeah :(

He's been ignoring me for weeks because he couldn't afford the catheter bags I asked him for. But all that I said was "don't worry about the catheter bags if you can't help, we must keep our lines of communication open if I'm gonna work for you."

And "Eric, please don't ignore me, it hurts, we were friends."

I'm really hurt by this, I've known him since 2000.

Re: Adventures in old computers

by Tdarcos » Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:16 am

You think a 5 1/2" double-height drive with "only" 6 GB in it is a huge drive with very little capacity, I have a story for you.

The main computer for the City College I went to was a Univac 90/60 mainframe, with a very large hard drive. About the size and shape of a washing machine, the drive supported removable packs, about 2' tall and the diameter of a dinner plate, they held, get this, 100 megabytes. And we supported the entire school and all the programming classes on this one machine with four of these drives and 512K of real memory. K, not Meg, or GB. And we supported about 20 simultaneous terminal users and about 400 using punch cards.

And I have my story, titled "Nice Work If You Can Get It."

After IBM, back in the 1970s, the second largest computer company was Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC). DEC was generally considered expensive; more than one customer was known to say, "I'd love to have an all-DEC shop," (all the terminals, disks, and peripherals DEC-branded), "but I can't afford it."

DEC's hard drive was similar to the one above, i.e. washing machine sized, with removable packs the circumference of dinner plates, and 2' tall. The drive cost $27,000 in 1976 dollars (about $140,835.13 today). It may have come with one removable 100 MB pack; extra packs cost $700 each (about $3,651.28 today). While DEC did make good, reliable drives, the best manufacturer of drives in the world was Control Data Corporation. They also made a washing machine-sized hard drive which supported removable 100MB packs. The disk packs cost the same, $700, but Control Data's drives were $7,000 (about $36,512.81 today). You could use them on a DEC computer, you just needed an adapter card which cost $300 (about $1,564.83 today).

At one DEC shop, the system administrator got permission to add two drives. One was a brand-new DEC drive, the other was a CDC drive with adapter card (DEC drives didn't need one). Since he had to open the drives up to install them, he decided to find out why DEC's drives were so much more expensive. He installed the card in the CDC, and checked the connections. When looking over the DEC drive, he realized part of the extra cost was that the DEC drive has a built-in controller card. DEC makes smart drives that do all the translation work; CDC makes stupid drives where the computer does the disk location conversion work, thus the reason for the controller card.

After inspecting both drives carefully, he discovered the difference. The card, that's all. DEC was actually buying CDC drives, adding their own built-in proprietary interface card, putting their own housing on them, then rebadging them as DEC drives, and charging about $20,000 more for the DEC logo.

Re: Adventures in old computers

by The REAL Real Man » Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:29 pm

I looked on eBay to see if I could find a dongle for the Xircom card. Yes, for around twelve bucks -- but it looks like PCMCIA WiFi cards are even cheaper, less than ten bucks! What a country!

Re: Adventures in old computers

by The REAL Real Man » Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:28 pm

This evening I pulled the drive out of the Toshiba Tecra 8000. It's a 6GB hard drive. Six. Gigabytes, not terabytes.

Man, this makes me feel old.

Oh, and if that's not enough, it's a 3.5" double-height drive. Oy.

I have a few old 3.5" drives sitting around that I'm hoping might work -- a 30GB from one of the Macbooks i owned and a 100GB of about the same vintage. There might be some others floating around or living in other computers.

Six gigabytes. Man, oh man. For some reason, that's more culture shock than the 20MB drive I'm expecting to find inside the Librex.

Aaron

Re: Adventures in old computers

by The REAL Real Man » Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:07 pm

Soooo, my variable-voltage power supply came today. (How did we live before Amazon Prime?)

The kit had plugs that fit both the Toshiba and the Librex. I dialed it up to 15 volts, plugged it into the Toshiba and... SUCCESS! (Well, some success.) The Toshiba showed a power light. I turned it on the hard drive spun up and clicked and whirred like a machine in an Infocom adventure. Nothing on the screen at first, but then I unplugged and tried again, and... Bingo! Big red TOSHIBA on the screen. It registered a CMOS error, let me into BIOS, then let me reboot, and showed several repetitions of "99" on the screen. Okay, so maybe the hard drive is a little scrambled, but no surprise there. Subsequent reboots (it responded to Ctrl-Alt-Del) brought me straight to the 99s.

Happily, I have a floppy drive for it (and I'm wondering if the Windows 95 box I have has a boot disk in it...) so I'm thinking this might be a runner if I can get a new HD into it.

Then I tried the Librex. I got the red light that shows the battery is charging, but it wouldn't turn on. I opened the battery compartment -- it's an old shrink-wrapped battery with a plug, not unlike what you'd see in a remote-control car. I'm thinking that's a good thing, I might be able to get/make a new battery. Problem is it would not turn on. I tried disconnecting the battery; no red light, no turn on. Dunno if the battery needs to be connected for it to power up. It's a "soft" switch, so I'm thinking I'll open it up and try shorting the terminals and see if that does anything. I think finding any sort of manunal for this thing will be pretty tricky; Librex (aka Nippon Steel, I believe) was only in the laptop business for about five minutes. Still, I'm optimistic.

So I'd call this 1 for 3... not ready to score the Librex yet.

Aaron

Re: Adventures in old computers

by The REAL Real Man » Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:58 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:35 am Well, if he truly did find religion - the middle of the Bible is all about forgiveness and the start of the Bible, they don't shut up about apples, so I think you're good. Unless he was a big "end of the Bible" guy.
I think he was a Jehovah's Witness. That's bad, right?

Anyway, he basically gave me an Apple, and that's never good in any religion.

TRM

Re: Adventures in old computers

by The REAL Real Man » Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:57 pm

Flack wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:32 am Link to manual: https://archive.org/details/PersonalTBC ... s/mode/2up
You are a GOD. If Jeff Hands were alive today, I'm pretty sure he'd be worshiping you.

TRM

Re: Adventures in old computers

by Ice Cream Jonsey » Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:35 am

The REAL Real Man wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:01 pm Nor am I sure if Herr Hands ever met the Internet. But when he died, I still owed him $100 for an Apple //c motherboard.
Well, if he truly did find religion - the middle of the Bible is all about forgiveness and the start of the Bible, they don't shut up about apples, so I think you're good. Unless he was a big "end of the Bible" guy.

Re: Adventures in old computers

by Flack » Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:32 am

The REAL Real Man wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:25 pm No kidding! My issue is I dunno if it works... although I might have a computer with an ISA bus around here somewhere. What sort of software would I need to test it? Figured I'd put it on eBay with a low starting bid, and hopefully it'd get bid up. Funny thing is I did see a pic of an Amiga card, and it sure looked like an ISA card, but I'm assuming the bits and bobs are different. Anyway. You've made me a LOT happier!
Well, it probably came with some proprietary capture/editing software that might be difficult to track down. These were the first generation of PC-based video editing systems. The genlock/time-sync feature allowed them to grab and freeze video one frame at a time from videotape, giving the ability to edit analog video digitally before sending it back out to tape. Here's a manual I found for the TBCII, not sure if your card has a model printed on it anywhere. If nothing else, I'd list in on eBay as "untested but pulled from a working system" (code for "fuck if I know if this thing works or not") and see what happens. The market is super hot for vintage PC hardware right now. I just sold a 1GB SCSI drive for the same price my new 2TB M.2 drive cost ($100).

Link to manual: https://archive.org/details/PersonalTBC ... s/mode/2up

Re: Adventures in old computers

by The REAL Real Man » Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:01 pm

Nor am I sure if Herr Hands ever met the Internet. But when he died, I still owed him $100 for an Apple //c motherboard.

Re: Adventures in old computers

by Ice Cream Jonsey » Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:10 pm

Oh, and I never actually met or interacted with Herr Hands.

Re: Adventures in old computers

by Ice Cream Jonsey » Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:49 pm

Flack is the only decent guy left on the internet (now that Herr Hands is dead). I am glad that you two have had an interaction here. You were both at my wedding!

Re: Adventures in old computers

by The REAL Real Man » Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:25 pm

Flack wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:16 pm You're probably aware, but that's a telltale sign of a blown capacitor.
I am now!!!
Flack wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:16 pm In working order, those things are hella valuable. The cases alone go for $50ish. If the motherboard's not completely rotten you can probably get at least $100 for it as it sits, maybe more. Depends a bit on the local market. If I were local I'd give you $50 for it, and I'm cheap as fuck.
No kidding? I have no idea if the MB is any good, as I said it didn't post (though I later realized I didn't plug in a keybaord -- still, no beeps). Regardless, I'm glad you said something! I'll be less inclined to give it away. Truth be told I'd be happy to have fifty bucks for it, but have no desire to ship it, was looking for local pickup.
Flack wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:16 pm That's probably a $200 card, give or take. The Amiga ones go for more than the PC ones, but they can still fetch good money.
No kidding! My issue is I dunno if it works... although I might have a computer with an ISA bus around here somewhere. What sort of software would I need to test it? Figured I'd put it on eBay with a low starting bid, and hopefully it'd get bid up. Funny thing is I did see a pic of an Amiga card, and it sure looked like an ISA card, but I'm assuming the bits and bobs are different.

Anyway. You've made me a LOT happier!

Aaron

Re: Adventures in old computers

by The REAL Real Man » Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:21 pm

Brought the Toshiba and Librex laptops home. Toshiba is a Tecra 8000 -- a Pentium 2-366, apparently! The Librex is a 286, apparently a short-lived attempt by Nippon Steel to make laptops. No power supplies for either. Both require 15 volts but the connector sizes look slightly different. So... I bought a universal power supply with dial-adjustable voltage and interchangeable tips, one of which I am thinking/hoping will fit both laptops. 5-24 volt, up to 5A (Toshiba charger is either 5 or 6A). Says to use it for everything but laptop charging, but how the hell would it know? No eyes on the power supply that I can see.

Anyway. Wish me luck.

Re: Adventures in old computers

by Flack » Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:16 pm

The REAL Real Man wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:09 pm What it did do was make a rather nasty burning smell. Oops.
You're probably aware, but that's a telltale sign of a blown capacitor. You may or may not hear them pop, but you'll always smell them. Depending on the motherboard, it may or may not be easy to de-solder and replace the caps. Unfortunately, the vintage laptop market (286/386/486) is almost worthless, with those machines in working condition often selling for less than $100.
The REAL Real Man wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:54 pm Soooo, the PS/2 is a dud. Opened it up and saw that not only were the drives missing, but someone had cut the floppy disk cable, presumably with scissors. How can people be so cruel? At least they cut in a straight line.
In working order, those things are hella valuable. The cases alone go for $50ish. If the motherboard's not completely rotten you can probably get at least $100 for it as it sits, maybe more. Depends a bit on the local market. If I were local I'd give you $50 for it, and I'm cheap as fuck.
The REAL Real Man wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:54 pm I did pull a card out of it -- a Digital Processing Systems time-base corrector, apparently. Thinking that might be worth something -- I've posted an ask on a video forum. If anyone here knows anything, please speak up!
That's probably a $200 card, give or take. The Amiga ones go for more than the PC ones, but they can still fetch good money.
raecoffey wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:23 pm I have a really old apple laptop rigged with windows 10 on it
Your definition of "really old Apple laptop" is about 30 years newer than mine. ;)

Re: Adventures in old computers

by The REAL Real Man » Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:11 pm

raecoffey wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:23 pm I have a really old apple laptop rigged with windows 10 on it. I haven't opened it up in 2 years and am without a charger, but if Eric had followed through and hired me I was gonna buy a simple old apple charger. Otherwise I'm connecting on my phone 📱, a decent $250 number called Samsung Galaxy A13.
I do love me some cheap Galaxy phones!

Re: Adventures in old computers

by The REAL Real Man » Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:10 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:15 pm Herr Hands is dead???
Yeah. He married some woman who cleaned him up, he apparently shaved and cut his hair and became rather religious -- I can't remember which religion. And then he passed away. Although... one might argue, given what I related in the first sentence, that Herr Hands died before that.

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