by chris » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:02 pm
Vitriola wrote:In the places where the ebonizer had scraped off, do I just reapply black stain?
If the area has been lacquered, you can't apply stain over the top of it....it won't stick. They sell repair pens for scratches and the stuff....that would be what I'd suggest if the ebonizing isn't too bad. You could even lightly sand the ebonized areas and paint them black.
For everything you just said, does that apply to the chairs, too? It's not like they have a thin veneer of anything on them. And, if not, how would they differ? If I do all of that, is the fact that the table top has a veneer and the chairs don't going to affect the finishing color?
It might. Let's assume that we're talking about birch here. The chairs and table legs/apron are all solid birch, while the top is a birch veneer. When I talk about sanding/staining/finishing, I'm talking about all parts of the table and chairs. However, it *is* possible for solid stock and veneer to have a slightly different appearance once you apply the finish. It's also possible for different pieces of solid stock to appear differently, since the density of wood varies, and the density affects stain absorption. Since a gel stain doesn't soak into the wood as much as liquid stain, it greatly reduces the potential for these differences. Should you apply a coat of stain and see some differences, applying a second coat of stain on the lighter areas will help even things up.
I am not married to this color, but I honestly don't care what color it comes out. I'll see if I like the color after sanding and applying the mineral oil, but what if it looks weakened, like some dishwater brown color? I guess you can answer that if it comes up.
Not mineral oil, mineral SPIRITS. You do NOT want to apply mineral oil to this! The mineral spirits will give you a reasonably accurate idea of what the wood's natural color will be. You can then pick a stain to tweak the color, or use something like a tung oil to add a little brown and depth to the color.
The wood seems hard as hell (shut up, Bruce). So the birch theory is supported, but would it matter if it wasn't?
You bet it does. All woods have a unique set of characteristics, including how well they take various finishes. You need to pick an appropriate finish for the wood you're dealing with. Gel stain and poly work well for a wide variety of wood species, which is why I suggested them.
When you talk about the veneer, is it a given that it's the same kind of wood as the rest of it?
For a set of furniture, pretty much. It *is* possible to make one species of wood look like another through finishing techniques, but I don't think that's the case here.
Like, when we talk about birch, are you just referring to the top veneer or the whole thing, like the inside of the table is shittier pieces of birch? I learned about veneers in hippie forestry school, and usually they just talk about there being nicer parts of the tree and worse parts, and bigger straighter trees being used for veneer, etc., but you mentioned that you had a walnut veneer on one of your pieces. Is the rest of it (your piece) walnut, too?
The viewable surfaces are usually the best pieces, while hidden pieces are either visually unattractive pieces of the same wood, or a less expensive wood. As for my sideboard, it features bookmatched burl walnut and other bookmatched walnut pieces with distinctive appearances. These are all veneered parts. I've actually not investigated to see what wood the other parts may be made out of, although they're pretty plain looking. They may very well be different woods stained to look like walnut (it's not unusual to see things like this).
Are you SURE you want me to use a polyurethane?
Personally, I think poly is shit, and I don't use it. I prefer shellac and polymerized tung or linseed oil. However, for a tabletop, you either have to use something that's very durable (like poly), or be prepared to touch up the finish now and again (which the average person probably doesn't want to do). Our dining room table was one of the first things I refinished.....the top does have poly on it, but the rest of it is shellac. 5 years later, knowing what I know now about woodworking, I wouldn't have put the poly on.
My dad uses tung oil on his pieces, so if that's something I could use on this, I have a helpful source. I think I'll just start sanding and post progress pics, and you can give me your take as I go along.
Tung oil is an odd thing....there's lots of stuff on the market called "tung oil" that actually doesn't have ANY real tung oil in it. The stuff I use is pure polymerized tung oil....fantastic stuff, easy to apply, but REALLY expensive. You could use it for your furniture, but anticipate spending a good $50 for the oil.
[quote="Vitriola"]In the places where the ebonizer had scraped off, do I just reapply black stain?
[/quote]
If the area has been lacquered, you can't apply stain over the top of it....it won't stick. They sell repair pens for scratches and the stuff....that would be what I'd suggest if the ebonizing isn't too bad. You could even lightly sand the ebonized areas and paint them black.
[quote]
For everything you just said, does that apply to the chairs, too? It's not like they have a thin veneer of anything on them. And, if not, how would they differ? If I do all of that, is the fact that the table top has a veneer and the chairs don't going to affect the finishing color?
[/quote]
It might. Let's assume that we're talking about birch here. The chairs and table legs/apron are all solid birch, while the top is a birch veneer. When I talk about sanding/staining/finishing, I'm talking about all parts of the table and chairs. However, it *is* possible for solid stock and veneer to have a slightly different appearance once you apply the finish. It's also possible for different pieces of solid stock to appear differently, since the density of wood varies, and the density affects stain absorption. Since a gel stain doesn't soak into the wood as much as liquid stain, it greatly reduces the potential for these differences. Should you apply a coat of stain and see some differences, applying a second coat of stain on the lighter areas will help even things up.
[quote]
I am not married to this color, but I honestly don't care what color it comes out. I'll see if I like the color after sanding and applying the mineral oil, but what if it looks weakened, like some dishwater brown color? I guess you can answer that if it comes up.
[/quote]
Not mineral oil, mineral SPIRITS. You do NOT want to apply mineral oil to this! The mineral spirits will give you a reasonably accurate idea of what the wood's natural color will be. You can then pick a stain to tweak the color, or use something like a tung oil to add a little brown and depth to the color.
[quote]
The wood seems hard as hell (shut up, Bruce). So the birch theory is supported, but would it matter if it wasn't?
[/quote]
You bet it does. All woods have a unique set of characteristics, including how well they take various finishes. You need to pick an appropriate finish for the wood you're dealing with. Gel stain and poly work well for a wide variety of wood species, which is why I suggested them.
[quote]
When you talk about the veneer, is it a given that it's the same kind of wood as the rest of it?
[/quote]
For a set of furniture, pretty much. It *is* possible to make one species of wood look like another through finishing techniques, but I don't think that's the case here.
[quote]
Like, when we talk about birch, are you just referring to the top veneer or the whole thing, like the inside of the table is shittier pieces of birch? I learned about veneers in hippie forestry school, and usually they just talk about there being nicer parts of the tree and worse parts, and bigger straighter trees being used for veneer, etc., but you mentioned that you had a walnut veneer on one of your pieces. Is the rest of it (your piece) walnut, too?
[/quote]
The viewable surfaces are usually the best pieces, while hidden pieces are either visually unattractive pieces of the same wood, or a less expensive wood. As for my sideboard, it features bookmatched burl walnut and other bookmatched walnut pieces with distinctive appearances. These are all veneered parts. I've actually not investigated to see what wood the other parts may be made out of, although they're pretty plain looking. They may very well be different woods stained to look like walnut (it's not unusual to see things like this).
[quote]
Are you SURE you want me to use a polyurethane?
[/quote]
Personally, I think poly is shit, and I don't use it. I prefer shellac and polymerized tung or linseed oil. However, for a tabletop, you either have to use something that's very durable (like poly), or be prepared to touch up the finish now and again (which the average person probably doesn't want to do). Our dining room table was one of the first things I refinished.....the top does have poly on it, but the rest of it is shellac. 5 years later, knowing what I know now about woodworking, I wouldn't have put the poly on.
[quote]
My dad uses tung oil on his pieces, so if that's something I could use on this, I have a helpful source. I think I'll just start sanding and post progress pics, and you can give me your take as I go along.[/quote]
Tung oil is an odd thing....there's lots of stuff on the market called "tung oil" that actually doesn't have ANY real tung oil in it. The stuff I use is pure polymerized tung oil....fantastic stuff, easy to apply, but REALLY expensive. You could use it for your furniture, but anticipate spending a good $50 for the oil.