[quote="Ice Cream Jonsey"][quote="RetroRomper"]Since 2007, there is a stagnation that has set in where its more an obligation and chore to keep interest alive... Its work as opposed to coming home and being able to relax, guilt trips as opposed to genuine interest.[/quote]

I need about a three month vacation from on-line forums. I haven't taken it because I am worried that there will be nothing left to return to. [/quote]

I can understand abandonment issues.

I used to run the Humor List on the University of Georgia's Listserv back around 1994. I got into it by accident. The moderator - although that would be an overstatement - who ran the list was taking a six month sabbatical through the middle of nowhere (meaning: places like India and that part of the world) where Internet access was spotty or non-existent. He needed some people to take over running the list.

Anyone could read the list or subscribe, but to be able to post jokes you had to take a test, basically that you understood the rules: (1) posts to be less than 101 lines; if longer, include a URL for people to go to for the rest. (2) that you know how to subscribe and unsubscribe so you don't send unsubscribe or other non-jokes to the list; (3) jokes must be clean or you have to state that they are or could be offensive in the title or the first line of the message (and the warning itself must not be offensive); (4) one posting per day.

If you said you knew the rules you got approved. And it worked fairly well. So the moderator who was doing this was going on sabbatical and if someone didn't want to do it, he'd have to shut the list down for six months, which would probably have killed it. I and five or six other people applied for the job, so we all got administrator access. But nobody else wanted to do the work, so I ended up doing it.

So I pretended I took over the list in a bloodless coup, and referred to myself, not as the moderator, but as "The Junta Leader of the Humor List," as I'd essentially taken over by fiat and lack of interest by anyone else.

I'll skip some of the stories about the things that happened while running the list unless someone asks.

[quote="Ice Cream Jonsey"][quote]With Tdarcos being encouraged to post on Caltrops, I think maybe this creeping lethargy extends to many of the old hang outs but in any case[/quote]

It does.

And I'll say this: I just don't get people.

Not: I just don't get YOU people. But I don't get people.[/quote]

It ain't hard to figure out people. You just have to realize one thing: most, perhaps nearly all people, are internally conflicted because they don't know how to think. They hold to what George Orwell called in [i]1984[/i], "Doublethink." They tend, on multiple issues, to believe in two contradictory concepts at the same time. This slows down one's ability to think; if you're very bright, you may even see it in yourself.

I did realize I had problems thinking at times, and until I figured what was wrong and got it fixed, I suffered with knowing that I sometimes had problems thinking, on occasion it was like trying to think through molasses. Then I discovered the answer and fixed it simply by rearranging my thinking to stop the problem. More details later if anyone is interested.

[quote="Ice Cream Jonsey"]Every other forum I go to, the moderation is strict and snotty. There is in-line editing of people's posts. There are bans for no real reason. There are rules like "no mod sass." There are deleted posts.[/quote]
It's said that "academic politics are so vicious because the stakes are so small." So the ability to run something because you have a bit of power can bring out the Napoleon in just about anyone. It didn't in my case when running the UGA Humor List because I treated it as something to do and a place to have fun, not as a means to make other people miserable or exercise power trips on my part, although at the time I probably never realized it. I also ran the list as sort of a "role" where I pretended to be this power-hungry tyrant who ran the list for fun and profit, by such comments as "To be allowed to post on the humor list you either have to show you read the rules or be prepared to offer the Junta Leader substantial bribes," and "I thought your comment was so bad I'm cancelling your access. Not to the Humor List, but to the Internet. After you finish reading this message you will discover once you log off your account you can no longer log on." Not true of course, but the whole idea was to be funny.

[quote="Ice Cream Jonsey"]I run two sites with the understanding that adults like being treated like adults. And it has proven to be the absolute last thing anyone writing posts on the Internet is interested in.[/quote]
I think someone said if you combine ability to say anything without having to hear or face the other plus anonymity = ideal conditions for bad behavior.

I mean, when people ask for advice on Yahoo Answers (and sometimes they'd ask extremely personal questions they wouldn't dare say if you knew them because they'd be embarrassed to have neighbors know this about them), I always hit them with both barrels, no holding back and sometimes with blunt honesty.

It might not be how I'd talk to someone face-to-face but the fact is, I give my opinions but I'm not rude or nasty. So perhaps I'm not usual. I never criticize anyone over their choices, I just point out why some things they would choose might be a bad idea, [b]but[/b] if they were going to make that choice here is what they should know. (This, for example, was the sort of tone I would use for a girl who claimed she was anything from 12-14 if she said she was considering having sex, I'd tell her it's a bad idea for a number of reasons (which I would give), but, if you are going to (among other things I'd mention), please insist he use barrier contraception, which means a condom. If 15-16 I'd say that a lot of girls claim they wish they hadn't started earlier but again, here's what you have to be concerned about. If 16-17 I'd also mention the risks involved and also point out that if you're going to do this keep your mouth shut and keep things private and quiet if you're in one of the states where the age of consent is above your age lest your boyfriend end up getting prison time if your parents object.)

Now, one time I gave one young lady the exact opposite advice everyone else would. She was planning to have her first time with her boyfriend which she had known for a while (several months), and did plan to use condoms even though she was on the pill. She claimed both of them were virgins and didn't have any diseases, but she worried about her boyfriend potentially cheating on her.

So I suggested instead, if both these conditions were true, that she's already using contraception and he doesn't have a disease, that she do something different. Allow him to have sex with her, bare. (She could use an extra form of contraception like foam or a diaphragm as backup protection) then let him know that he could have her any time he wants, he can have sex with her bare, but that's subject to two conditions: (1) he only have sex with her, and (2) he talks to her first if he wants to change this. This gives her an advantage he has with no other woman; he can have sex with her bare, he knows he can't catch anything from her and she isn't going to get pregnant. None of these would necessarily be possible with someone else and thus this could solve her problem.

I don't know if I could be this honest with some young lady who asked me this in person.

[quote="Ice Cream Jonsey"]I guess that's why I don't feel I can take a break from it. The people I would be avoiding are, by my definition, the only people on the net smart enough to not need to be micromanaged by admin/mod pieces of shit. I mean, look at that SC2 forum. The people administering it are garbage.

I will say that I have long maintained that nobody can keep anything on the Internet except me. So no matter what happens, I will never delete (or really move) the contents of JC and Caltrops.[/quote]

Someone once said the only way you can guarantee something will get done (on time, correctly, and/or at all) is if you do it yourself. I once took a bus, a metro train, a MARC train and a bus to take an important letter to an office in downtown Baltimore (65 miles away) rather than mail it.

What's ridiculous is I can get to downtown Baltimore, 65 miles away, in less than two hours by public transit, but to go 12 miles to the county seat in Upper Marlboro takes at least three hours each way.

[quote="RetroRomper"]Since 2007, there is a stagnation that has set in where its more an obligation and chore to keep interest alive... Its work as opposed to coming home and being able to relax, guilt trips as opposed to genuine interest.[/quote]

I need about a three month vacation from on-line forums. I haven't taken it because I am worried that there will be nothing left to return to.


[quote]With Tdarcos being encouraged to post on Caltrops, I think maybe this creeping lethargy extends to many of the old hang outs but in any case[/quote]

It does.

And I'll say this: I just don't get people.

Not: I just don't get YOU people. But I don't get people.

Every other forum I go to, the moderation is strict and snotty. There is in-line editing of people's posts. There are bans for no real reason. There are rules like "no mod sass." There are deleted posts.

I run two sites with the understanding that adults like being treated like adults. And it has proven to be the absolute last thing anyone writing posts on the Internet is interested in.

I guess that's why I don't feel I can take a break from it. The people I would be avoiding are, by my definition, the only people on the net smart enough to not need to be micromanaged by admin/mod pieces of shit. I mean, look at that SC2 forum. The people administering it are garbage.

I will say that I have long maintained that nobody can keep anything on the Internet except me. So no matter what happens, I will never delete (or really move) the contents of JC and Caltrops.

[quote="Tdarcos"]It reminds me of a story. A catfish farm had an accident, and the sea gate was left open. The locusts of the sea, the jellyfish, stormed in and destroyed all of their fish. On the news reports it said the jellyfish were like solidly packed down to 20 feet or 20 meters, I forget which. All those beautiful usable fish stung to death and eaten by the equivalent of the Borg on ST:TNG or the enemy in [i]Independence Day[/i], an eater that produces nothing and in itself has no value.[/quote]

Jellyfish. No friend of mine!

There was probably a Chrome extension to automatically select all check boxes on a page. I probably could, given an hour, figure out how to write such an extension. So really, it was more that I didn't look for it. I can't expect phpBB2 to be improved.

What sucks is that their upgrade process to phpbb3 didn't work when I tried it the first time.

More like revamping the place, like when it went from dial-up to this incarnation. Maybe the next version will have sound clip roll-overs!


THE
I CAN ALWAYS HOPE
AARDVARK

I lose Internet connectivity for two days and you guys are already talking about dismantling the site?

Fuck this, I'm moving to China.

[quote="ICJ"]When people register, the admin can determine the next behavior to let them post, in phpBB2.

You can make it so the SysOp has to approve the account.
You can make it so the user has to click on an e-mail to use the account.
You can do nothing.

I had the latter enabled, and it cost me.[/quote]
My blog at Paul-Robinson.us had something similar to what you have, and I was getting regular spam all the time. I basically had to lock down my system to keep it from being flooded.

It reminds me of a story. A catfish farm had an accident, and the sea gate was left open. The locusts of the sea, the jellyfish, stormed in and destroyed all of their fish. On the news reports it said the jellyfish were like solidly packed down to 20 feet or 20 meters, I forget which. All those beautiful usable fish stung to death and eaten by the equivalent of the Borg on ST:TNG or the enemy in [i]Independence Day[/i], an eater that produces nothing and in itself has no value.

If I thought these people had any money I'd consider going after them for damages but they're probably poorly paid coolie posters from China or an untraceable botnet. Possibly the advertiser can be targeted but it's still going to be hard to prove.

[quote="ICJ"]The spam is gone now, and I have banned IP block 120 from the site. It's China. I don't care if we go missing in China.[/quote]
Before I had to lock down my site, I basically figured, if I could force-exclude any post that contained .CN I'd have gotten rid of 99.9% of the spam I got. That's all it would have taken; prohibit .CN in a post like a swear word, and until they figured out how to get around that the spam would have ground almost to a halt.

[quote="ICJ"]But here's the real problem: cleanup.[/quote]
Aye, there's the rub. Most posting systems don't have a good "one click" system to allow the administrator to expunge spam.

[quote="ICJ"]I went into the DB. I was going to delete all posts with a poster_ip of 120. phpbb2's structure was so convoluted I didn't understand what shit I needed to delete in order to get the posts out. Seriously, say what you will about Caltrops, the db layout is simple and clean.[/quote]
Most open-source applications are written to "scratch the itch" of the developer who needs something. So often the work was either not designed at all or was developed on an "ad hoc" design. Really good, important projects like the Linux kernel have only stayed in good condition because they are managed, and basically then they are very similar to commercial projects with all the formality and control, making the work much more structured.

Simplicity is very hard, and it takes a lot of discipline. The ultra-common prevalence of "spaghetti code" that Basic gets a bad reputation about is the capability of the language that allows you to do this if you lack discipline. One can do well-designed and well-structured apps, but it takes a lot of work to get it right.

You then go on to complain about the inability to delete things a page at a time. Welcome to the club, As I note on my board, I got hundreds of these. I only state it's 300 spams I got with two good postings, but it was lots more spam than that, probably over 1,000. I was able to figure out how to mass-delete a lot of spam through PHPMyAdmin, the database management tool for MySql.

But it's a pain in the ass. I guess I could say I'm not surprised you got flooded with spam, I'm kind of surprised it took as long as it did. Low hanging fruit like this doesn't usually last this long before the hungry barbarians come through on their rape and looting pillages.

So, Jonsey, now you know what it's like to be raped a pillaged. Like myself, you're now sadder and wiser.

If its worth anything, after reading through the archives, my impression is that the the purpose of this BBS has shifted over time to a point where its more a drain than a benefit. Topics, conversations, [i]discussion[/i] feel forced without that spark of interest where Pinback, Jonsey, or whoever, are drawn here to hash out ideas and actually seek advice. Since 2007, there is a stagnation that has set in where its more an obligation and chore to keep interest alive... Its work as opposed to coming home and being able to relax, guilt trips as opposed to genuine interest.

With Tdarcos being encouraged to post on Caltrops, I think maybe this creeping lethargy extends to many of the old hang outs but in any case, maybe a reinvention of some kind is in order. I have some ideas but I'm not precisely sure what the regulars get from roaming these halls, though I do know I enjoy writing and responding to the personalities that gather here. That won't change on my end but Pinback is correct, maybe its time for this world to evolve.

Though that is the same argument they constantly give for every other great web service / site that is suddenly sold to a giant corporation and is then a year later, placed on a "sunset" list to be retired. There is history here, nearly a decade of posts, discussions, drama, human suffering and enough of a record to even show shifts in personality and it would be a shame if that were lost...

Tough calls all around.

But phpBB2 is inadequate - shifting to phpBB3 can be either a small change of back end, or a climatic upheaval. I see arguments for both options.

It's amazing to me that you went to that trouble instead of blowing the shit away and starting a new pointy BBS or something.

You are to be commended.

And then asked: Why can't you just start another pointy BBS instead? It never has these problems, and we can type in fake poster names more than 12 characters or whatever it is.

Sure, it means the terrorists win, but in this case, much like September 11, 2001 and Raynor's Raiders on Mar Sara, [i]don't the terrorists have a point?[/i]

Deleted, duplicate post. Which in this case actually helps my argument.

When people register, the admin can determine the next behavior to let them post, in phpBB2.

You can make it so the SysOp has to approve the account.
You can make it so the user has to click on an e-mail to use the account.
You can do nothing.

I had the latter enabled, and it cost me.

The spam is gone now, and I have banned IP block 120 from the site. It's China. I don't care if we go missing in China.

But here's the real problem: cleanup.

I went into the DB. I was going to delete all posts with a poster_ip of 120. phpbb2's structure was so convoluted I didn't understand what shit I needed to delete in order to get the posts out. Seriously, say what you will about Caltrops, the db layout is simple and clean.

OK, so next I thought I'd use phpBB2's moderator functions. It lets you click on a thread so you can delete it.

One at a time.

One at a TIME.

ONE AT A FUCKING TIME. THERE IS NO "SELECT A PAGE OF THREADS."

I HAD TO FUCKING CLICK ON EVERY FUCKING THREAD I WANTED TO DELETE.

FUCK THIS FUCKING SHIT.