Okay, Let's Talk "Graphic Novels"

by **looper** » Sat Jun 14, 2003 10:49 pm

Damn. :)

I remember an interview in Wizard with Alan Moore, and that guy's into mysticism and occultism and such. Strange guy.

by **Debaser** » Sat Jun 14, 2003 10:35 pm

You know, searching through old memories of mine, I remember reading an issue of Wizard right around when Maxx came out that had an interview with Keith (this was back before I swore off collecting comics, I still have the first ten or so issues of Maxx, I think). And he was almost hilariously unenthused about his own work. The interviewer kept trying to talk about the plot and the weirdness, and Keith's just like "Yeah, whatever. I don't think it matters what I actually put in the issues, really. It's got a lot of blood and violence in it, so the kids should eat it up."

by **looper** » Sat Jun 14, 2003 7:38 pm

Protagonist X wrote:Random notes:

While many of the issues can in theory be read out of order -- e.g. the one-shot short stories -- their placement in the grand scheme has some order behind it.

Right, right. I was just thinking that if Jonesey was so discouraged by Preludes and Nocturnes that he didn't want to read any further, then I would recommend one of the *best* story arcs, over the next one chronologically, as a last-ditch attempt at getting Jonesey to dig Sandman. :) But it looks like this might not be an issue.

Protagonist X wrote:My personal faves for art were the later arcs: ... and the Wake, mainly by Zulli, were beautiful.

Yeah, I really liked Zulli's work too. Also, one of my all-time favorite issues in terms of art (and story) was the one-shot in which Sandman goes to Arabia during the Thousand and One Nights time period. You know the one?

Protagonist X wrote:wonderfully strange covers by McKean

Yeah. :) I understand he does or did album covers.

Protagonist X wrote:Funny thing I heard about Sam Keith: someone I know who met him described him as the bitterest human being in the world.

His art has that feel to it, doesn't it?

by **Protagonist X** » Sat Jun 14, 2003 1:54 pm

I followed it for a while, and you're right: it was pretty cool. The art was a helluva lot better than many books from that period. But it got fragmented in the writing as it went on; I'd say that this was the problem with a lot of artist-written books. Not all of them, but most.

It was "pretty cool." But it wasn't something I'd pull out and give to friends who'd never read a comic before and tell them "this isn't just another funnybook, this is something that may well rank with your favorite novels; just try it and let me know what you thought." Sandman... well. Yeah.

I've just discovered, as I organize books and music and software in the new house that some of my Sandman collections are missing: loaned out and not returned. I also found out I own two copies of Brief Lives, but one or the other was usually out in circulation. I can't think of any other things I've read that have appealed to so many different people.

Now, if some of them would just give them back, dammit --

by **Roody_Yogurt** » Sat Jun 14, 2003 1:52 am

The Maxx was pretty cool.

by **Protagonist X** » Sat Jun 14, 2003 12:51 am

Random notes:

While many of the issues can in theory be read out of order -- e.g. the one-shot short stories -- their placement in the grand scheme has some order behind it. I read the Orpheus legend before reading any of the issues in which he appears, and I feel like I missed out on some of the foreshadowing in Dream Country because of it. Or take the next-to-last issue, the Chinese-influenced one (One of the very best for art, I thought: way more innovative and suited to the story than most comic books).

My personal faves for art were the later arcs: the Kindly Ones, with Hempel, and the Wake, mainly by Zulli, were beautiful. I loved Jill Thompson's turn in a short story and her turn as the penciller for Brief Lives, as well.

By way of explanation about my love of the more idiosyncratic issues: one of the things that attracted me most to the book was that it looked very different than most comics: wonderfully strange covers by McKean, unusual art, none of the usual trappings like captions that needlessly explain something that the art shpuld suffice for, or "* Back in ish #8 of T-Man Crossover! - ed." interjections, or the other cheesiness that drove me away from mainstream stuff.

Funny thing I heard about Sam Keith: someone I know who met him described him as the bitterest human being in the world. Dunno if it's true or not, but the story I was told is that he worked on the 1st three issues, then DC fired him (quite independently of Gaiman's wishes -- Gaiman never had a problem with the guy). Keith had been looking forward to a solid tenure as the book's artist, and then he was cut loose for some reason.

Sandman went on to become one of (if not the) hippest comics of the 90s; Gaiman became a success outside of the comicbook ghetto and was enshrined as an archetype of "writer as rock star"; zillions of mainstream articles were written about Sandman The Phenomenon, citing Gaiman as the genius behind it (certaintly true; it was a very writer-centric comic before they'd even brought the first artists on board). Sandman wound up changing artists -- and hence art styles -- every story arc, to surprisingly good effect.

Keith wound up with a mention on the front page of each issue reading "Sandman characters created by Gaiman, Keith, and Dringenberg," since he and Mike Dringenberg did the initial character sketches to Gaiman's script. The Maxx had a decent run and a cartoon on MTV. And Keith wound up, probably, feeling like Pete Best or Stu Sutcliffe in the middle of Beatlemania, unable to pick up a magazine without reading about the Big Chance That Got Away.

Bummer.

by **looper** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 11:56 pm

Here ye, Jonesey, if you get a chance, check out Season of Mists!

Debaser, haven't read Berlin myself...tell me how you like it if you read it. :)

by **Debaser** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 10:03 pm

I'm no good at judging art, myself. I'm about as "nonvisual" as you can get without becoming blind, which is, I figure, why my every attempt to learn how to draw has ended only in pain and suffering for myself and those dear to me. Just glancing through the book in front of me, Prelude's art seems grisly and bleak, which is about spot on for the story being told. But, it's certainly not much to look at independantly, I'll admit.

I did really like the art in "Dream Hunters", however, which is a Japanese-themed Sandman episode that was written after the original story arc (I believe), and pretty much has nothing to do with the events depicted therein.

I'd at least read Doll's House, before Game of You, as that story introduces Barbara and explains how she got to where she is. Season of Mists would probably work well enough as an independant sampling. My personal favorite is Brief Lives, which would probably be one the absolute worst books to start with.

I didn't recognize the name at the time at first, but Lutes is essentially the only comic book author a buddy of mind will have anything to do with. I know he has a copy of Berlin, at least. Maybe I should ask to borrow it.

by **looper** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 8:49 pm

Protagonist X wrote: I'm wondering if our expectations shaped our opinions.

Don't mean to throw the thread or anything; just wanted to say I totally agree with this supposition. I know I have seen movies that I did not like because they hit too close to home or because I *thought* they hit too close to home...and if you think about it, we all train ourselves to respond to certain stimuli, don't we? The initial attraction to something is natural, and from there we steadily refine it (it might be called a person's "taste" in music, in literature, etc.). Maybe???

I saw this thread a day or two ago and since then, My, has it grown! As to Debaser's original request for recommendations, I heartily recommend Jar of Fools by Jason Lutes. It basically feels like a short story. Rather than go on and on about it, here are three links...the last two links are about other works by Lutes, but I chose the three links because they were the best representations I could find quickly of his visual style...I guess I would call it economical and yet utterly effective.

Anyhoo, I think that describes both his visual style and the overall style of Jar of Fools.

http://www.state51.co.uk/hottips/jaroffools.html
http://www.yaleherald.com/archive/xxxi/ ... e/p18.html
http://www.silvertree.org/~steve/sketches/jlutes99.html

Protagonist X wrote:Read them in order. Absolutely. Out of order will spoil some of the big plot twists.

I agree with this in principle. I've never read the entire Sandman story arc and would like to, in order. But of the ones I have read, A Game of You and Season of Mists were my favorites and I don't think reading them first would spoil enjoyment of the other novels very much, if it all. What do you think, X?

Jonesey, actually A Game of You is reminiscent of the last part of No Time to Squeal. It too plays with the Alice in Wonderland iconography and makes it a bit more sinister.

A couple of comments\questions for Jonesey:

I agree with you about the art and color job for Preludes & Nocturnes. Not the best. Did you notice who the artist was? Sam Keith. I don't know if you liked his art for The Maxx (and previously, for the Wolverine mini-series that was in Marvel Comics Presents), but I did a lot. I'm guessing that his work for Preludes and Nocturnes was done earlier than his Wolverine and Maxx stuff.

Also, the art for Season of Mists is excellent, in my opinion. I can't remember if it had more than one artist, but I do remember that one artist did several issues in that story arc, and in the last issue (I believe), that artist changes his style per the characters involved...many of the characters are gods from various regions of the world, so, for panels involving the Japanese god, the style is reminiscent of Japanese prints. Etc etc.

Does Frank Miller's art look like Mike Mignola's (I don't recall)? I like Mike's work a lot.

by **bruce** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 2:25 pm

Debaser wrote:I will have to check out Little, Big, though. What's it about?

According to Amy it's about Myth and Reality and where the difference between the two of them is. It's certainly about fairies in Upstate New York, and goat farms in the Bronx (maybe; Amy thinks it could be Very High Manhattan, while I think I remember it's the Bronx). It's definitely about alcoholism and imaginary friends, and about the hubris of erudition.

It also has a lot to do with the doctrine of similarities. As above, so below, and all that.

Bruce

by **Debaser** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 1:42 pm

bruce wrote:Yeah, pretty much. He relies a lot on ACTION! and GORE! to make his points, which is fine. What amazes me about Little, Big, though, is that Crowley tells an amazingly compelling story with very little actual action in it.

ACTION!? I'd disagree, but not strongly enough to post an argument about it. GORE!, yes, definitely, but that's part of the appeal. I'm generally not a horror fan, but to me the absolute pitch blackness of a lot of bits of Gaiman's writing are the only thing that make the rest palatable. If it weren't for Vandemar and Croup. or similar lurking evils, he'd really just be writing Disney novelizations. Plus, if we're going to talk fairy tales, in the true versions, gore's a pretty essential element. I will have to check out Little, Big, though. What's it about?

I'd argue that there's not a whole lot of difference between Myth and Fairy Tale.

To me, Myth, Fairy Tale, and Folk Tale are distinct subdivisions of something else. What that something else is is the word I'm looking for, but I'm not sure it exists. Oral Tradition is the closest, but it doesn't have the correct implications. It's not really important, though.

I find Whiny Cerebus unappealing. A lot of the stuff where he's breaking the fourth wall just pisses me off. However, I didn't think Melmoth went there.

I personally like whiny Cerebus. It's not objectively good, but Dave's just crazy and self-absorbed enough to make it interesting in a "Space Aliens Laughed at My Cardigan" sort of way. And I like Melmoth in a "this is generally pretty good" sort of way. So I probably shouldn't have mixed the two except to say what I was originally going to say, and that's that I like Church and State and similair books, better than either.

by **bruce** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 11:35 am

Debaser wrote:
bruce wrote:I actually think the phrase you're looking for is "Fairy Tale." That's pretty much what Gaiman is about. Stardust is quite explicit, and Neverwhere and American Gods are also, quite frankly, fairy tales.
Stardust, obviously yes, same with Coraline. Neverwhere, maybe, it's got the right structure and mood, even if it's a bit detailed for a real fairy tale. I'd debate Gods, though. If nothing else, what he was going for was definitely myth, rather than fairy tale.

Shock And Awe conventions
I don't follow. Are you referring to the horror elements?

Yeah, pretty much. He relies a lot on ACTION! and GORE! to make his points, which is fine. What amazes me about Little, Big, though, is that Crowley tells an amazingly compelling story with very little actual action in it.

I'd argue that there's not a whole lot of difference between Myth and Fairy Tale.

I find Whiny Cerebus unappealing. A lot of the stuff where he's breaking the fourth wall just pisses me off. However, I didn't think Melmoth went there.

Bruce

by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 9:32 am

Update!! I started re-reading the volume that I had on my bookshelf again the last couple of nights. Yeah, better stuff than I recalled earlier... I only am able to make it through one "issue" before I pass out (when I decide to go to sleep most nights it's usually only because I am really, really close to zonking out) but I imagine I'll finish it again this weekend. I can't remember anything that happens in it, so the surprise will still be there for me.

I still am not much of a fan of the art, though. I wonder if it looked better on the original newsprinty-stock as the colors look bright and washed out in this collection.

by **Debaser** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 9:29 am

bruce wrote:I actually think the phrase you're looking for is "Fairy Tale." That's pretty much what Gaiman is about. Stardust is quite explicit, and Neverwhere and American Gods are also, quite frankly, fairy tales.

Stardust, obviously yes, same with Coraline. Neverwhere, maybe, it's got the right structure and mood, even if it's a bit detailed for a real fairy tale. I'd debate Gods, though. If nothing else, what he was going for was definitely myth, rather than fairy tale.

Shock And Awe conventions

I don't follow. Are you referring to the horror elements?

I still need to get Going Home; I have the first 12 Cerebus collected volumes, up through Rick's Story. My absolute favorite remains Melmoth; retelling the death of Oscar Wilde as a comic strip about a psychotic alcoholic aardvark is an awfully ballsy move, and it somehow works. Once I have all 300 issues, nicely packaged, I'll read them from top to toe and see how they work as a single story.

Melmoth was neat but, to a certain extent, I think Dave does humor better than everything else he thinks he tries, and the more ambitious he gets, the more imperfect things get. If you get a hold of Going Home, comapre the first part of the book to the second, and you should get some idea what I mean. I doubt he'll ever top Church and State, in my mind, at least.

PTX wrote: (I wanted to keep the (radio edit) a secret, see. One of my favorite bits.)

Oops. My thought was that, yeah, it's the coolest bit of Doll's House, especially in concept, so I was kind of subtly bringing it up in the hopes that Robb would say "hey, neat!" and run out and start reading.

One of the thematic concerns of the series is stories, and after the first third or so he really starts to explore that angle more explicitly. You didn't dig Doll's House? Takes all kinds, I guess.

I didn't not like Doll's House, in fact I liked it a lot the first time through. But it's got some weaknesses, isn't a grand leap forward from Preludes (which I think is a bit underrated) and, in terms of "voice", isn't really the final evolution.

Because I was a latecomer to the series I wound up reading it quite a bit out of order, and a few things that I would have been surprised by were spoiled. So I'd recommend the linear progression from personal experience.

In that case, I bow to your experience. I came to the series years after it's run had finished (I was actually introduced to Gaiman through his novels, and was re-introduced to comics through Gaiman), and ate through the compilations in order. I don't know how it would play out of order, and figured it wouldn't play that differently, but you've done it and so would know better than I.

by **bruce** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 7:33 am

I actually think the phrase you're looking for is "Fairy Tale." That's pretty much what Gaiman is about. Stardust is quite explicit, and Neverwhere and American Gods are also, quite frankly, fairy tales.

(Other plug: if you liked American Gods you should read John Crowley's Little, Big (now back in print) for a taste of postmodern-fairy-tale-done-right. Not to say American Gods isn't entertaining, but Gaiman relies very heavily on Shock And Awe conventions to tell his story, while Crowley spins this amazing, wondrous thing and makes it look effortless as it rattles through a number of changes of style and setting.)

By the way, so as not to confuse anyone: these I've been talking about are all books. No pictures. Sorry.

I just read a few more out-of-order episodes of The Preacher, which is entertainingly apocalyptic, but somehow doesn't do much for me.

I still need to get Going Home; I have the first 12 Cerebus collected volumes, up through Rick's Story. My absolute favorite remains Melmoth; retelling the death of Oscar Wilde as a comic strip about a psychotic alcoholic aardvark is an awfully ballsy move, and it somehow works. Once I have all 300 issues, nicely packaged, I'll read them from top to toe and see how they work as a single story.

Bruce

by **Protagonist X** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 1:48 am

I think that for Debaser and me to correspond on this we need to put in a ***Spoiler*** warning here for Jonesy. Robb? Try not to read this post or the one immediately preceding it.

(I wanted to keep the Serial Killer Convention a secret, see. One of my favorite bits.)

Debaser wrote:There's a certain way Gaiman writes (partly but not entirely in his use of narrators) that really feels like you are being told a story, like what you're reading is part of an oral tradition.

One of the thematic concerns of the series is stories, and after the first third or so he really starts to explore that angle more explicitly. You didn't dig Doll's House? Takes all kinds, I guess.

Sandman's an original creation at the start of the book, and I don't believe other authors have ever featured him in guest spots. I doubt he'd fit, though it'd be interesting to see someone try to shoehorn him into an issue of Batman.

Funny thing: while DC has the rights to the characters, more-or-less, they have a tacit agreement with Gaiman not to use the Endless without his permission, or continue the Sandman title with another writer. This isn't because DC suddenly became big softies for artist's rights; the Time Warner brass decided that their future relationship with the writer was worth way more than some temporary small change.

I remember when I got into the book: It was right before my first year of college, the summer after high school. Around that time I read an article that named the Sandman as one of the most recognized properties owned by Warner Brothers, ranking behind only Bugs Bunny and Batman.

I can see where Time Warner might want to keep the creator happy.

The progression of Sandman is largely nonlinear, and I'm not sure how it'd play out of order.

Because I was a latecomer to the series I wound up reading it quite a bit out of order, and a few things that I would have been surprised by were spoiled. So I'd recommend the linear progression from personal experience.

But that's just me.

by **Debaser** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 11:24 pm

Protagonist X wrote:
Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: The Sandman: Preludes & Nocturnes.

OK, this was my problem with this collection -- when I go and drop my twenty bucks on a Sandman archive, I was hoping that the Sandman would be in it and be everywhere.
Yeah. This is arguably one of the weakest books in the series, even though the Sandman is a more central character here than in other collections. Each story seems to be the writer trying on a different hat: traditional English horror story, modern English horror story, contemporary splatterpunk, etc. The eighth issue, The Sound of Her Wings, is where the series finally finds its own voice.

Yeah, that's generally the popular opinion on the series. I don't know, though, a lot of Sandman involves skipping through various moods and tones. I mean, compare the issue about the boarding school where the dead come back to life and the bits of "Dol's House" set in the serial killer's convention to, say, the story about the Sultan who sells Sandman his city, or Dream and Delerium's road trip.

Although, I suppose, the earliest issues don't have the same... I dunno what the proper word is... I want to say "fairytale", but that isn't right. There's a certain way Gaiman writes (partly but not entirely in his use of narrators) that really feels like you are being told a story, like what you're reading is part of an oral tradition. That's not present in Preludes and Nocturnes, but I wouldn't really say it was present in Doll's House, either. It doesn't take shape until Dream Country, I'd say. The only thing "Wings" really does is provide a breather from all the absolute black as pitch happenings in the Dr. Destiny story and highlight the series' rather unique sense of sentimentality. The latter I'd say is really first introduced during Dee's trip to recover the ruby, but I can see why, coming to the series for the first time, it's with the introduction of Death (ironically) that the whole thing begins to look less like a straight horror story.

The arc immediately after this is The Doll's House, and it's one of the strongest. If you aren't getting into it by the end of Doll's House, I'd suspect that the series isn't going to be to your taste... but I'm pretty sure you'll like Doll's House. The main character in that one is a girl called Rose McGowan, but the Sandman does in fact show up.

I'm not a huge fan of Doll's House, for whatever reason. Good character work, but the whole "dream vortex" bit never really seemed to fit the mythology, and what Desire was actually trying to accomplish isn't made apparent until much later in the series (and even then, it's hardly explicit), so the plot kind of falls flat. And Rose, while certainly key to the plot, is rather completely overshadowed as a character by approximately everyone else in the book. Personally, I think the series really starts to take shape with Dream Country, but that's me.

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: I had never read a story with this character in it before. I've got huge holes in my DC Comics timeline, but even then I have usually encountered most of the characters in one story or another. Not so with Sandman.

Sandman's an original creation at the start of the book, and I don't believe other authors have ever featured him in guest spots. I doubt he'd fit, though it'd be interesting to see someone try to shoehorn him into an issue of Batman.

Are the books more or less in a series? I know that you can read the Daredevil ones that I recommend in any order -- is this the case for the Sandman's collections?
Read them in order. Absolutely. Out of order will spoil some of the big plot twists.

Moreover, when I look at them as 75 continuous issues, there's a slow, subtle progression in the title character. Even though he's off stage for large parts of other sub-stories, the whole of the run itself becomes his own tale.

Actually, here I'm not sure. The progression of Sandman is largely nonlinear, and I'm not sure how it'd play out of order. The last two books and the fourth to last book definitely need to be put on hold, as they're a linear cycle of events that are most certainly "the end". The third to last book, (World's End, I believe) only has one big revelation at the very end, but even at the point it's introduced is still basically foreshadowing. Everything else is kind of a jigsaw puzzle; you're provided bunch of snapshots in time and you sort of assemble them into a picture that allows you to see what made the last few books inevitable. Amongst them, I wouldn't necessarily insist there's a necessitative order.

by **Protagonist X** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:34 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:I can't find anyone else on the Internet talking about GAE.

Funny, I can't find anyplace else on the web to talk about GAE.

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: I should mention, of course, that I am biased towards GAE as he's my hero and so forth, and since I have a lot of catching up to do with Gibson, my take up there doesn't come from a defensible position.

No, no, no. I understand exactly how you feel about GAE because I felt the exact same way about Gibson. Your position doesn't require any defense at all; I freely stipulate that my opinions aren't final or verifiable fact, and also that Gibson probably won't be to every person's tastes.

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: The Sandman: Preludes & Nocturnes.

OK, this was my problem with this collection -- when I go and drop my twenty bucks on a Sandman archive, I was hoping that the Sandman would be in it and be everywhere.

Yeah. This is arguably one of the weakest books in the series, even though the Sandman is a more central character here than in other collections. Each story seems to be the writer trying on a different hat: traditional English horror story, modern English horror story, contemporary splatterpunk, etc. The eighth issue, The Sound of Her Wings, is where the series finally finds its own voice.

The arc immediately after this is The Doll's House, and it's one of the strongest. If you aren't getting into it by the end of Doll's House, I'd suspect that the series isn't going to be to your taste... but I'm pretty sure you'll like Doll's House. The main character in that one is a girl called Rose McGowan, but the Sandman does in fact show up.

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: I had never read a story with this character in it before. I've got huge holes in my DC Comics timeline, but even then I have usually encountered most of the characters in one story or another. Not so with Sandman.

Another facet of the "finding its voice" idea: the first seven issues make pretense at being part of the DC continuity -- hell, Scott Free and J'onn Jones show up in one issue. After this arc, any references to the standard DC-verse are subtle when they're inserted at all, even though it technically takes place there. I thought the way it wound up being handled was rather cool in the end.

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: It's funny -- well, not ha-ha funny, but still: this relates back to the GAE and Gibson thread for me. I have realized over these two threads that I apparently have a need for a strong central character in my literature, cinema and graphic novels. I hadn't been consciously aware of it until right now, though.

Insightful... most people prefer a single central character to be the protagonist. I hadn't seen the link between the Gibson multi-character novels you couldn't finish and the things you disliked about Preludes & Nocturnes. Points for keen observation, sir.

Sandman, as a title, has a lot of stories where there's several things going on, but one character is the protagonist of the story arc. It also has a lot of short stories, one-issue deals in the Sandman milieu. Many of these are excellent work; don't be frightened off by them.

I'm wondering if our expectations shaped our opinions. Imagine going for a movie that the trailers and ads portrayed as an action movie but when you get there it's really an art-house film. Even if it's incredible comedy/drama/whatever, if you're expecting an action flick you'll be sorely disappointed.

If Sandman was a movie, it would be one of my favorite art-house flicks. Off the beaten path, but still engrossing.

Are the books more or less in a series? I know that you can read the Daredevil ones that I recommend in any order -- is this the case for the Sandman's collections?

Read them in order. Absolutely. Out of order will spoil some of the big plot twists.

Moreover, when I look at them as 75 continuous issues, there's a slow, subtle progression in the title character. Even though he's off stage for large parts of other sub-stories, the whole of the run itself becomes his own tale.

by **Roody_Yogurt** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:02 pm

Btw, to comment on your first response, I didn't know it at the time (I just assumed that hey, it's such a freaking loose adaptation that it doesn't matter), but some web pages seem to indicate that the game based on Neuromancer officially takes place after the book.

by **Roody_Yogurt** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:01 pm

Btw, my main take on GAE is that The Zork Chronicles rocked the house but I really have to read that again to see if I can still appreciate it (I was in seventh grade). Circuit's Edge was fun (although I don't think it does a good job of getting the player excited about playing it in the beginning, it's like submersion into cold water... you have to wait until you're flailing around a bit before it starts to feel good), and I'm very glad that I played it if only because it was one more inspiration/aspect for "Fallacy of Dawn" to add to the warm fuzzies quotient.

Not that Neuromancer has much to brag about as a trilogy, either, but GAE's When Gravity Fails (had to look that up) was the only one that I was truly happy with. The rest of the books have their moments, but by the end of the third, I was pretty disappointed with the path GAE had set out for his protagonist and found it far from conclusive or interesting. That said, I was always very pleased when Saied (had to look that up too) was around and either ready to kick some ass or providing a good deal of humor.

Okay, Let's Talk "Graphic Novels"

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