Admiral Ackguh wrote:If you don't mind the smiley face showing, you can also use this for spaces. The smiley shows only when an object or creature is on the space - so maybe it can work for a creature-impassible space triggered by dropping, that fires a macro removing the object. Something like a waste disposal chute?

An even more obvious use for this would be a no-drop region. In a now-abandoned ACK game I wanted to have an astral plane with strange architecture, spaces and obstacles found nowhere else. I made it a no-drop zone. (You can't drop physical objects in the astral plane. Making them droppable duplicates would mean having to keep track of both astral and physical objects.) I could have made a special floor and wall with set-later graphics, and put these tiles in the secondary tileset. And the astral creatures used opaque backgrounds, so no possibility of smiley faces.

Garth's Equipment Shop wrote:Your forgetting what you had already read from the manual about "set-later" graphics. You can have all your obstacles use set later graphics so that those objects do not use any normal tiles.

If you don't mind the smiley face showing, you can also use this for spaces. The smiley shows only when an object or creature is on the space - so maybe it can work for a creature-impassible space triggered by dropping, that fires a macro removing the object. Something like a waste disposal chute?

Another trick you can try if you are desperate to free up as many normal tiles as possible is to have one normal tile that is completely filled with the transparent color and always use that for your creatures normal tile and use one or more tiles from the secondary "animation" set, if one just repeat the same selection for all three. It will disappear for one out of 4 turns which might be slightly annoying but it could be easily explained as hiding or something.

Or if you have many similar creatures (i.e. humanoids) you can have one generic humanoid normal tile. It would probably be less annoying than a disappearing creature.

jupider wrote:Creatures use the "Normal" tileset for their generic tile ('G'), and optionally up to 3 tiles from the "Secondary" tileset for animation ('Alt+G'). This means that altogether, the creature can have up to 4 unique frames of animation, of which the "Normal" 'G' tile *MUST* be set, which means EACH AND EVERY OBJECT AND CREATURE MUST HAVE AT LEAST ONE TILE FROM THE "NORMAL" TILESET.

Your forgetting what you had already read from the manual about "set-later" graphics. You can have all your obstacles use set later graphics so that those objects do not use any normal tiles.

Another trick you can try if you are desperate to free up as many normal tiles as possible is to have one normal tile that is completely filled with the transparent color and always use that for your creatures normal tile and use one or more tiles from the secondary "animation" set, if one just repeat the same selection for all three. It will disappear for one out of 4 turns which might be slightly annoying but it could be easily explained as hiding or something.

I second all of what you said.
Another patch addition was/is? that you can hop swap the palette of the game. So that green ground can be yellow ground (desert) on another map as that map was set to a different palette. Only draw back is that if the screen changes to a cut scene then returns, the original palette is back until the game has reason to call the new one. I think the best solution would be a subfolder for every map (or numbered for every map) and have a custom palette in every one the game could always go to by default.

The only tricks I've managed is to recycle some objects with others. Like I want to place plants and stoves and tables and desks, on as many floor tiles as possible and made them misc objects. But these can be walked over. So I make another obstacle object that is also a floor tile then place the misc objects on them. And made sure that this obstacle was still a space object set to nobody can pass. This way you can talk to people across a table, like at a weapons shop. If the table were just a normal obstacle, you could not talk to the person on the other side. Or if the floor tile was an actual obstacle. This is only a small space saver in that you can use stoves and tables on any floor tile.
The misc objects must have a weight of 9999. The same can be used for windows.

Okay. From what I've tinkered around with, the "Normal" tileset is basically used for *everything* (i.e. pressing 'G' to select the tile.) If you want an animated tile ('Alt+G'), the "Secondary" tileset is used for that (which only pertains to SPACE, SPACE*, OBSTACLE, OBSTACLE*, and PORTAL objects).
For WEAPON, RANGE WEAPON, ARMOR and VEHICLE, both the 'G' and 'Alt+G' icons are pulled from the "Normal" tileset (meaning the "Secondary" tileset is not available for these objects.) MISC. ITEM does not have an 'Alt+G' option, so they are exclusive to the "Normal" tileset.
SPELL/SKILL doesn't have a graphic, so this sentence is pointless.
Creatures use the "Normal" tileset for their generic tile ('G'), and optionally up to 3 tiles from the "Secondary" tileset for animation ('Alt+G'). This means that altogether, the creature can have up to 4 unique frames of animation, of which the "Normal" 'G' tile *MUST* be set, which means EACH AND EVERY OBJECT AND CREATURE MUST HAVE AT LEAST ONE TILE FROM THE "NORMAL" TILESET.

I guess this means that if I fill up my normal tileset with a bunch of those "fancy-schmancy" transition tiles, I may not have enough free tiles left to be available for all the remaining objects and characters/monsters in the game. Maybe a so-called "mega-patch" can be made whereas all "terrain" tiles are pulled from the "Normal" tileset and all the object/creature tiles, including animation frames, are pulled from the "Secondary" tileset. Honestly, this makes more sense anyway, but I didn't write the damn code so I don't know if it's even possible...

Good idea. Ill work on it. But if anyone else has started putting this table together by all means share your progress so far since I havent even started yet. :P

Okay, so I haven't truly used ACK since before this recent "rebirth." Back then, we had one tileset. Period. Now there's two, but in the documentation, there's a somewhat cryptic line, "Normal tiles are used for most things: an object or creature's primary appearance, the player's icon, etc. Secondary tiles are used to animate terrain or creatures, or for spaces or obstacles that are set in “set graphic later” mode."
So maybe someone can create a simple table with two columns: in the first column, list all the places where the "Normal Tiles" can be used. In the second, all the places where the "Secondary Tiles" can be used.
I ask this because I would like to create a fancy-schmancy tileset with "edged" terrain, so transitions between different terrains aren't simply solid lines, but I don't want to burn up all of one particular tileset and not be able to create other objects/items that can only be used with that same tileset.

And just knowing which tilesets can be used for what purposes would be beneficial.