Smoking ban passes

[Coloradoan]

A divided Fort Collins City Council sliced and diced its way through a model smoking ordinance before unanimously approving a version late Tuesday night that would make most bars and all Fort Collins restaurants smoke-free by Oct. 1, 2003.

The ordinance, the way it was approved, left the door open for taverns that earn less than 25 percent of their revenue from food sales, the city's one bingo parlor and the bars in the city's two bowling alleys to allow smoking in physically separate and independently ventilated smoking areas.

Council members admitted creating a separate smoking area might be prohibitively expensive or not physically possible for small establishments.

The ordinance will permit smoking outdoors in most circumstances including stadiums or concerts. It will, however, prohibit people from gathering to smoke within 20 feet of smoke-free buildings.

City staff will have to look into the cost of creating smoking areas for businesses as well as just how many bars earn less than 25 percent of their revenue from serving food, said Sarah Fox, an environmental planner with the city who has directed the city's outreach efforts concerning changes to the smoking ordinance.

The ordinance also will be written to allow some new businesses, such as bowling alleys, to allow smoking under the same provisions, said Carrie Daggett, an attorney in the city's attorney's office.

The council spent 5 1/2 hours dealing with the smoking ordinance, much of it before an overflowing council chamber. The first 90 minutes of the meeting were spent listening to the two-minute comments of 52 community members who wanted one last chance to be heard on the issue that was initiated by council more than three years ago.

There were 38 voices in favor of a stricter ordinance, many calling for adoption of the Colorado Tobacco Education and Prevention Associationmodel ordinance that would restrict smoking in all bars, restaurants, outdoor sports arenas and entertainment venues. Ten people spoke against any change in the current ordinance that allows smoking in bars and designated smoking areas of restaurants. Four people spoke in favor of the revised ordinance if it were buffered by amendments to allow smoking in some restaurants and bars.

Those in favor of the new ordinance included doctors and former city councilmembers and Colorado State University students who stressed employee safety, community health and the lack of employment options for many in the food-service industry.

Jamie Gastelle, 12, whose 16-year-old brother works in a restaurant, asked the council to pass the ordinance to protect young workers. She was the youngest to speak in favor of a tougher ordinance.

"Please protect all the kids from secondhand smoke because we can't protect ourselves," Gastelle said.

Those against the ordinance often spoke with the highest volume comparing the ordinance to Nazi and Middle Eastern regimes because of the way it would limit the freedom of smokers.

"We're becoming a nation of laws," Clint Blauer said. "You're trying to legislate freedom of choice out of existence."

Council will hear second reading of the smoking ordinance at its Dec. 17 meeting. Major changes could still be made at that meeting.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

I don't smoke, but that's fucking horseshit.

I dislike living in this city, and will almost certainly not be here once my current lease is up.

Jamie Gastelle, 12, whose 16-year-old brother works in a restaurant, asked the council to pass the ordinance to protect young workers. She was the youngest to speak in favor of a tougher ordinance.

"Please protect all the kids from secondhand smoke because we can't protect ourselves," Gastelle said.

YES YOU CAN YOU STUPID CUNT! YOUR BROTHER IS NOT FUCKING FORCED TO WORK THERE! HE CAN QUIT AND GET A JOB DOWN AT THE MALL!

[k. roo]

I dislike living in this city, and will almost certainly not be here once my current lease is up.

You might not have many places to go to soon. NYC's Mayor Bloomberg's push for a smoking ban in the city just like the above just narrowly failed, but it's just a matter of time, really. It's been "the law" in the state of CA for, what now, 3 years? And that's just the places I happen to be aware of.

Better check out that real estate market around Anchorage..

[bruce]

I don't smoke, but that's fucking horseshit.

Here's my point about California: if I'm in a <b>BAR</b>, I'm not there for my fucking <b>HEALTH</b>. Even I am not so hypocritical that I myself would say "Well, pour me another shot of liver-rotting poison, barkeep, but KEEP THAT SHIT OUT OF MY LUNGS!"

Bruce

[k. roo]

Here's my point about California:

I'm wondering what our resident Californian has to say on this subject.

[Pinblack]

He is probably trying to shoot adrenaline into his liver so he can get it to the point where he can post without shooting pain.

[Ben]

I think you should be able to smoke in bars. And I rarely, if ever, smoke. But a little second-hand smoke I think adds some atmosphere (figuratively and literally) to a tavern, and I don't mind it a bit.

I like the rule in restaurants and other public facilities.

But this is California, man. If you want to smoke, move to Nevada. It's mandatory there, or something. You know that joke: "Nevada: California's smoking section".

[AArdvark]

Smoke really never bothered me when it was allowed in restaurant and airplanes, It wont bother me now. I feel sorry for those sad sacks that have to go outside in January to light up tho. Gotta suck.


THE
COSY WARM
AARDVARK

[Ben]

It's 80 degrees here in January, so it's not that much of an issue. I was thinking of taking up smoking as a regular thing so I could have an excuse to go outside.

[Sundae Goblin]

Noooo!!! Sunlight turns us TO STONE! Outside, sunlight, bad, bad, BAD! You no turn stone Ben! Eat sundae instead! Sundaes are what we eat when hiding in caves from orcs and minotaurs. No cure for stone. Not even mounds of delicious sundaes!!

[Roody_Yogurt]

As a smoker trying to quit (I went 39 DAYS up until a couple weeks ago when I got depressed to hell and long term goals didn't seem to matter any more... but today I'm back on the nicorette whore so we'll see how far I go), I can understand why so many people can be so against smoking in public places, but of course, I'd hope for a little more empathy, overall. People, in general, love finding ways to de-humanize eachother and once they actually feel they have Right on their side, things can get worse (I'm sure a fair amount of non-smokers think dude on the street smoking 30 feet away is trying to kill them).

But yeah, the major cigarette companies are all kind of evil and all that. Of course, I think it's funny that the French who are so loudly against American corporations and commercialism smoke mostly American cigarette brands (or so I've heard from friends).

In any case, yeah, when it comes to bars, the issue gets pretty ridiculous.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Absolutely. I think the world would be better if there were more people like you and me in it, Roody.

I don't smoke. I will likely never smoke. (OK, when I am at a bar, I will put a cigarette in my mouth in like 5 out of 100 trips because there's fuck-all to do with your hands at a bar and all my friends smoke: but I, much like Clinton, never inhale -- in my case, because Coughin' Ain't Cool.) But I honestly couldn't care less who does choose to do so. It simply doesn't matter to me, because I am wholly unaffected.

Why is this trait so mind-boggingly absent from people? The understanding that most people simply desire to be left alone? Nobody should care if someone smokes or doesn't smoke. Nobody should care if someone figured out who the big invisible guy in the sky really is, or isn't. And everyone should know, if they (wow!) managed to work out for themselves the Right, Official, Correct answer, that NOBODY CARES THAT YOU DID.


...


... Well, we pretty much solved what's wrong with planet Earth. Any other topics we ought to tackle? How about that Big Red Spot on Jupiter, eh? What an eyesore! Someone ought to go by and clean it up so I don't have to look at it!

[bruce]

I will put a cigarette in my mouth in like 5 out of 100 trips because there's fuck-all to do with your hands at a bar.

Clearly you go to the wrong sorts of bars.

Bruce

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

That's a setup line for Monkey Monkey if I ever saw one.


P.S. I am not, nor have I ever been, Monkey Monkey.

[bruce]

That's a setup line for Monkey Monkey if I ever saw one.

At least I don't go to MONKEY BARS.

Bruce

[Roody_Yogurt]

There's a gay bar in Chicago called 'the Man Hole'. In fact, the whole street there has a lot of, um, interesting shops... one of them being a pretty cool record store.

[Worm]

Those against the ordinance often spoke with the highest volume comparing the ordinance to Nazi and Middle Eastern regimes because of the way it would limit the freedom of smokers.

"We're becoming a nation of laws," Clint Blauer said. "You're trying to legislate freedom of choice out of existence."

I really like Clint. I personally believe people really take this freedom thing to far. If you smoke around someone who doesn't want to be smoked around and they can effectively tell you to fuck right off on your merry way. In a bar that is understanable ... there should be no no-smoking area ... there should be smoking areas. It's square to not die you'd probably get your ass kicked for asking to no matter how cordially. By this totally dictionary definiton of freedom people cling to when it serves their purpose by smoking around someone you are violating their freedom to live how they wish! People need to stop ranking Cigarrettes with fucking sprite ... it is posion and people should smoke responsibly or expect big brother to control your output of posion.

If I sprayed Raid around the street I would be prosecuted. Bars? Fine. People simply should have the right to if sitting on a park bench not having to move themselves if someone decides to smoke next to them. I mean it's all cool that smoking is popular culture but it is still fucking posion and doesn't matter if billions of great and fun people do it ... they simply should be under the dictation of the person who asks them to walk away I think.

I hack up my lungs regularly and wouldn't be suprised if I ended up with cancer due to second hand smoke from my dad and other people.

Now, I've cooked up this image of smokers being run off the streets and packed in these little wire fence cages in filthy alleys smoking away as the people on the bright ivory main street scoff as they all walk around cloned and shit. I dig that image ... it's not right ... but I dig it. Bars, Homes, Outside a Pool Hall, but not in a park, near a school, I really think that preventing people from gathering to smoke within 20 feet of smoke-free buildings is real nice. I hope to see this in PA soon. I just believe when we accept freedom for what it really is and lose all these disillusions about goverments role in our lives everthing is going to be much better.

[gsdgsd]

There's a gay bar in Chicago called 'the Man Hole'.

A few years back, some friends and I were in Chicago for the 4th, and looking for this legendary all-night blues bar (the name of which I've since forgotten). On the way there, we passed by The Man Hole ... which was advertising "Dirty Underwear Night".

I've never really been the same.

Greg

[loafergirl]

I smoke. I'm a polite smoker. I have no complaints smoking outside of my workplace. I don't light up cigarettes outside when I'm next to other non smokers. But if a non smoker walks up to me and wants me to put it out they can kiss my ass. If you want to go to a bar and don't want smoke, go to a non smoking bar, if they have them in Rochester, I'm sure they have them elsewhere.
The problem with the whole debate is that no one takes into account that there are people like myself who smoke, but are considerate of others while doing so. Talking about locking smokers up in a fucking concentration camp is fucked up.
Part of smoking that non smokers will never understand is that it's not just the addiction, there is an entire social behavior associated with it. That's whats prevented me from quitting every time I've tried. Smokers talk, I wouldn't know a damned thing about what was going at work if I didn't smoke.
When I took a trip by train a few years ago no one was friendly or social in the regular cars or snack car, a band broke out in the smoking car, literally. All different people from all different places got together and jammed. It's perfect for escaping situations like boquet tosses at weddings, or starting coversations when you're bored.
I smoke I'm not evil incarnate. I'm an addict to something which doesn't alter my state, I'm not a fucking crack head. If your a non smoker and I'm not smoking around you, leave me alone. And if you go to a regular bar, EXPECT IT.
Jesus Christ, people bitch up and down about smoking, and yes, second had smoke is dangerous, but a drunk on the road is just as bad and they're not banning alcohol. It's the same thing with smoking as it is with anything else, responsible use.

-LG

[James]

I have the quirk of inhaling second hand smoke.

I really don't give a shit about if you smoke or not.
I just want a big ol' cyberpunk fascist goverment so the world can end already and I can cut the sleeve off my coat and get to my fucking destiny.