The Current State of Arcade Collecting

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:31 pm

The number of people who actually remember playing arcade machines in their natural habitat is dwindling rapidly. A 21-year-old kid in 2009 was born in 1988; by the time s/he could drive it was 2004. Arcades as I knew them were a cold, rotting corpse by then.

The new generation of arcade collectors could give two shits about restoring old cabs, because they don't remember them. Five years ago, converting $classic_game_x to run MAME or a Multicade was blasphemy. Now, it's the norm. At the last two auctions I visited, Multicades actually sold for MORE MONEY than most classic, restored games.

Eventually, this will drive up the value of unmolested arcade machines. Unfortunately by "eventually" I mean "for the next generation." It looks like for our generation, the dream is over. I just listed a working Centipede cabinet on Craigslist for $300 and didn't get a single e-mail. Other machines are doing worse.

Due to space and time constraints I've decided to downsize my collection. The problem is, to whom? My Centipede is one of my better looking cabinets. At current prices I'll be lucky to get $100 for some of my working games, and less than that for the broken ones.

(Insert sound of Pac-Man dying here.)

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:37 pm

Yeah, it's a buyer's market, and even so, nobody's buying.

The Wizard of Wor I got a couple months ago was for $225. (I didn't bother haggling with the guy's wife - he was selling because he got laid off, and you know what, I really wanted that game.) That's the least I've spent on a game, with the exception of a beat-to-shit Mr. Do! I've tried to improve.

But yeah, I've heard that what's going to happen to the hobby is what happened to Model-Ts. When the generation that was nostalgic about them started dying off, well, that was it for any value the Model-T had. I think that's where arcade games are headed as well, because they're so frigging impractical.

Sorry to hear about the Centipede. If I lived closer and it was a cabaret I'd jump on that. (Although, it being close to the holidays, the months are packed with visiting friends and relatives and gifts and stuff. But I would think a frigging working Centipede would be an awesome gift, so my experience is not the norm here.)

And furthermore, what I guess will happen is that these things are gonna get parted out. I had trouble selling Xenophobe, for instance - it took me listing it on and off for months. I had the space and attachment where I could just leave it downstairs, but I wasn't going to be able to leave it forever. I got maybe $100 more than if I had just sold the PCB. And now 19" monitors are drying up.

(I'd like to think that the PCBs will rise in value, though.)

Actually, 19" monitors drying up kills me. I've got some burn on a lot of them. I had designs to eventually replace every single bad 19" monitor in my game room with a $135 Vision Pro.

co · Post by co » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:06 pm

I would say that arcades are still alive . . . or else I didn't drop over $150 at Gameworks the other night. The problem for your hobby (25 year old games) is they can be emulated well on my phone at the bus stop so why would I pay for that? If I'm going to pay $20 for 10 games then I want to drive a fucking hummer or have the entire chair move so I feel the g forces, something I gan't get at home with my 360.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:43 pm

Well, the issue of whether any arcade games are emulated "well" is this whole sprawling sub-topic.

I would maintain that MAME is one of the most amazing programs ever written that can't completely capture a good deal of what people like about arcade games in the first place. But it comes close.

That being said, this isn't an opinion I am going to have forever. Sure, MAME will never get the controls right, but there was an emulation project a while back that attempted to mimic the glow of vector games. I think that projects other than MAME (they have flown off into a dictator-style stagnation) will move towards getting that stuff right.

AArdvark · Post by **AArdvark** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:56 am

Isn't i more of the ambiance of the arcade rather than the games themselves?

Most kids today will never know the whole arcade experience, well the old school arcade experience, before they had a history. Last arcade I went to was almost all ticket-collecting and if it wasn't for the bar it would have sucked balls.

I'd rather play Defender in an arcade over a pizza joint or convenience store any day. I'd certainly drop 3X the amount of quarters in one at an arcade. Too bad all the cabinets are in museums and collectors' garages now.

More later... need to expand this thought

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:40 am

I have always maintained that emulation has its place. At a game show once these kids saw me playing a C64 emulator and said, "emulation sucks, it's nothing like the real thing." I replied, "ever try setting up a C64 on a plane? It kind of sucks." There's a time and a place for everything. The emulation vs. real hardware will rage as long as there is real hardware to compare it to (and actually, now that I think about it, probably after that as well). Like many things in my life I don't see it as a black/white issue, It's all gray to me.

MAME is a great emulator, but what it emulates is games, not the arcade experience, and that is what I miss. MAME emulates Ms. Pac-Man (for all intents and purposes) perfectly, but it does not emulate the look, feel and smell (yes, smell) of an arcade cabinet. Cabinets have this weird smell ... I think it's from the wood heating up inside ... regardless, MAME doesn't smell like that.

But back to what I was originally saying, my guess is most people playing MAME these days either don't remember that smell or don't care about duplicating it in their home.

One thing ICJ touched on was controls. It is downright maddening to try and play a game designed for 4-way controls on an 8-way stick (and vice versa). That can be circumvented by using switchable sticks, but many of the games I've collected have unique controls: RoadBlasters, Ivan Stewart's Off Road Challenge, Q*Bert, Karate Champ, 720, and so on. MAME doesn't do them justice.

Centipede was just an example. I have a handful of games I paid more than $200 for. For the most part through auctions and personal deals I've paid between $100 and $200 for my games. I really thought that as I outgrew the hobby I'd be able to at least recoup my investment, but at the moment it doesn't look like it.

co · Post by co » Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:59 am

I would totally love to collect some arcade games if I ever stop renting and settle down in a house of my own. The thought of moving all of those things just horrifies me. I've always wanted my own arcade game. If I could choose one arcade game i've always wanted it would be a tabletop MS pacman. I've always loved that game because if you're good you can get lots out of your quarter but it never gets dull. The best one I've played is in at the Atlantic Tavern in Rochester NY, perfect combo of laid back atmosphere, great jukebox, and pool tables.

flack wrote:At a game show once these kids saw me playing a C64 emulator and said, "emulation sucks, it's nothing like the real thing."

I loved my C-64, heck I even loved my Vic-20 before that but I didn't cry when they crapped out either. What's this kid talking about? I'd give up every fun and educational thing I did with all my childhood computers and games if I could have grown up with a 3g smartphone, even one that's not perfect like my G1. Growing up I always dreemed of having something that I could carry around and watch tv and listen to music and play games.

aardvark wrote:Most kids today will never know the whole arcade experience, well the old school arcade experience, before they had a history.

I feel like the arcade lifestyle that we are so nostalgic for died when the first nintendo came out. That seems to be when I remember lots of my friends starting to save their arcade money for the next new game for the nintendo they got for christmas.

aardvark wrote:Last arcade I went to was almost all ticket-collecting and if it wasn't for the bar it would have sucked balls.

I wouldn't say that Gameworks has the old arcade feel by any means but I definitely wouldn't say people were just collecting tickets either. People were really enjoying the games, I even saw strangers getting together to team up on the shooting games. The drinks were pretty cheap and it turned over 18 at 10:00 which was nice.

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:04 pm

The first blow against arcades was definitely the NES. The second blow was a shift in gaming genres -- when RPGs became more popular there was a big shift toward PC gaming. Arcades saw a big resurgence with the fighting games of the late 80s/early 90s -- Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, etc -- but (IMHO) finally tanked when home computers and gaming systems "caught up" with arcade hardware.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:15 pm

AArdvark wrote:Isn't i more of the ambiance of the arcade rather than the games themselves?

In some cases. I don't know. There is just a "feel" that is different in a lot of games. Not all. Like Flack said, Ms. Pac-Man is probably emulated to the point where I could not tell the difference between a machine running Ms. Pac on a native board, and one on the latest version of MAME.

But that's really not the case with a few of them. Plus, the latest version of MAME isn't everywhere. The "48-in-1" boards use MAME .33 or .32 (er, not MAME32, which is for 32-bit operating systems, but the thirty-second rev) (they are on, what 116 by now?) and it does a shitty job with certain games. I haven't developed the vocabulary to specifically say why. But if you are ever out this way, Vark, I'll load up the emulated Mr. Do! on the 48-in-1 next to the real Mr. Do! and I think it will be obvious.

Although! The sound on the emulated board is shitty for a lot of the games. Gyruss is a game that sort of depends on its audio.

I'd rather play Defender in an arcade over a pizza joint or convenience store any day. I'd certainly drop 3X the amount of quarters in one at an arcade. Too bad all the cabinets are in museums and collectors' garages now.

Well, sort of. I'm of the opinion that it is much better that collectors got their hands on them because we really do treat them with love and TLC for the most part.

AArdvark · Post by **AArdvark** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:28 pm

It's too bad because they aren't as available as much anymore. The first time I saw Defender (I use Defender as an example because the first time I saw it the game blew me away!) Was in a pizza joint on Lyell Ave. I said: 'Wow! Look at all the buttons!'

The next time I saw the game was at the Putt Putt in Greece. I proceeded to drop five bucks on that machine that night.

Which brings me to the next point. The arcade games were designed to grab quarters by giving out gameplay for three to five minutes, the console games are designed to last much much longer before character death. I don't thing the youth of today have the patience levels required for the learning curves required by old arcade games.

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:53 pm

Defender is an excellent example of a game that is terrible on most MAME cabinets. The button layout is never right, and while you can play 2-way games with an 8-way stick (Joust, Moon Patrol, Defender, etc.) it still feels wrong, or at least "not quite right". At least it's not maddening like it is when playing a 4-way game with an 8-way stick. "Why can't I get Mario off the top of this god damn ladder!!!?!?"

My son routinely complains that arcade games are too hard. He likes the "Lego Star Wars" model, in which players can continue forever and are rewarded for playing the same level a million times in order to unlock everything. The only reason he puts up with my arcade games is because they are set on free play. If they actually cost him a quarter, he'd be done with it real quick.

Worm · Post by **Worm** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:47 am

I basically GREW UP in an arcade in PA. Now I'm in Massachusetts where the closest arcade is in Central Mass, two hours away. There used to be a real close arcade but it's being turned into an Ikea.

Even my old haunt in PA, which used to be an awful brown place which had Ms. Pacman and Fighting Mania, is now a painted white Namco arcade which prominently features Deal or No Deal as the first thing when you walk in.

RealityCheck · Post by **RealityCheck** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:00 am

Central Mass isn't 2 hours away from anywhere in Mass, except the tip of Cape Cod. Last night I drove from Western Mass to Cambridge in less.

AArdvark · Post by **AArdvark** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:05 pm

Yeah but did you play any video games?

never seen that punching game before . Wish Deal or No Deal game had the boxing option so's a body could hit Howie- Bald-Head- with- the- cheesy- chin -beard while playing it.

THE
HARD DRIVING
AARDVARK

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:58 am

Cactus Jack's in OKC is still open. It's a far cry from what it used to be in the 80s and has added a lot of ticket redemption stuff, but the places that didn't do that are for the most part closed. It's easy to say "oh it's different now" and whine about change, but the reality is they have Defender, Robotron, and half a dozen other classics among all the other stuff and they're still open so I support them at least once a month out of principle.

AArdvark · Post by **AArdvark** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:58 pm

Sure wish one of those arcade bars would open up here in Rochester.....

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:13 pm

Well, two down. I sold my Q*Bert and Zaxxon cabinets this week. Kind of sad, kind of not. I need to sell 5 cabinets just to get down to what will fit in my building (I have 5 in the garage that won't fit out in the building).

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:23 pm

MIGHT I ask what Q*bert went for? I am going to be deeply shameful if I paid more for a working Q*bert board last year ($170 + shipping) than actual, whole Q*berts are going for.

AArdvark · Post by **AArdvark** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:48 pm

So Q-Bert was low game on your ditch list? Wow, I always thought Q-Bert and Zaxxon to be pretty good machines, even if I sucked out at both of them....

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:51 pm

I never liked Qbert much until I played Jonsey's, and now I think it is one of the most important games he has in his arcade.

Here is my listing of the relative importance of games he got:

1. Robotron/Williams multi-thing: Because these are the best games, and you have done nothing with your life until you have saved the last human family.

2. Zookeeper: Because it's important to have something around that Jonsey is good at, otherwise he just sits over in the corner, pouting.

3. Qbert: Because it's a deceptively excellent game, done extremely well. Also, see #2.

4. Asteroids: Because this should, of course, be #1, but it's still some weird, modded version of it which I have to actively avoid the mods whilst playing so I feel I am having a purer experience than I actually am.

5. Pac Man Multi-thing: Because it's pac man, and it's still good. It'll always be good. It is... timeless.

6. The Polybius cabinet with all them millions of games on it: Because I now have the high score on all of them, except for Donkey Kong, and Donkey Kong is fun.

7. Tempest: Because I think Tempest is a cult-of-personality thing, but even without the cult, it's still pretty good. I remember the first time I saw and played Tempest in real life, when it just came out. It was the greatest thing ever. It is no longer that, in my opinion, but still deserves respect.

8. Spy Hunter: Because unlike most of the Spy Hunters I played as a child, everything works on this one.

9. Gyruss: Because I'm trying to remember the other games he has, and this is one of them.

10. Mr. Do!: Because fuck Mr. Do, this fucking piece of shit Dig Dug ripoff sucks, and will always suck, and fuck it.

9.5: Wizard of Wor: Because I just remembered he had this one, and it's kind of a piece of shit, but it's certainly better than fucking MR. FUCKING DO!!!! I added three of those four exclamation marks for emphasis.

I know I'm forgetting some. What am I forgetting?