Operating systems

[AArdvark]

I'll throw this here cause I don't get a lot of response from Jeff's board anymore. Facebook is one more dagger in the heart of ye olde bulletin board systems.



As you all know, I have been waffling between Tiny 7 and Ubuntu for the last two years now. It goes about every six months where I feel I might be missing out on something, so I flush my netbook and install the greener grass from the other side of the fence. All told, it's really same-same.

Now, I am a sucker for all things Commodore. Not as much as Flack, mind you, but the name still gives me that nostalgic swoon that makes me want to go buy a 128 off'n Craigslist. The only thing that could be better is a hyperlink from Commodore that says 'Free Download'.

So now I'm gonna try that and see if it makes Natty Narwhal and Tiny 7 pale by comparison.

Thoughts to follow.

THE
CHICKENHEAD
AARDVARK

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Shit. I gotta install that. Man. That's amazing. Let us know how it works? Is it basically Unix?

[Tdarcos]

I saw the teaser video. If they had good video editing as the thing showed, I'd really be interested in the new Comodore 64, only problem was the pricing was ridiculous, the bare bones machine is $350 and I don't want to imagine if it's even usable as is. The full function machine was something over $900 and they had one at $1100. You can buy a fairly decent brand new desktop machine for (a lot) less than this.

[AArdvark]

It's just a fair PC in a cool retro case. I was gonna do something similar but never got around to it. Actually, I liked the 64C design better than my old breadbox that I started on.

All downloaded and ready to install this weekend.



THE
GENTLEMENS
START YOUR SOFTWARE
AARDVARK


edit: FUCK! 64 bit only! Not going to work on my lowly mini9!

[Tdarcos]

I'm going to do a new article where The Commander talks about the Commodore Linux.

http://www.joltcountry.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 5402#65402

[AArdvark]

OK just for fun I'm going to try installing BeOs Haiku. Mostly because it's free and based in Rochester. Wish me luck!


THE
LEAVING THE ROAD MAP
AARDVARK

[RetroRomper]

OK just for fun I'm going to try installing BeOs Haiku. Mostly because it's free and based in Rochester. Wish me luck!


THE
LEAVING THE ROAD MAP
AARDVARK

I ran Haiku briefly when it was known as OpenBeOS, then went back and used it as my main OS when they reached Alpha 2 (then switched to a dual boot Ubuntu / Win7 computer when I felt neither would metaphorically, put a cap in my ass).

The premise is fun and it was enlightening to learn about an alternative path of kernel development through application (and I gleamed a few hints about the history of GCC and translation layer usage).

[AArdvark]

Are there driver issues, like with Ubuntu?

[RetroRomper]

OpenBeOS didn't support my 5.1 setup (same audio to all speakers and my bass didn't work properly), support for this was improved in Haiku Alpha 2 and I didn't have issues after that. However, don't expect video acceleration to work at all, though 2D isn't a problem and they (at the time) had basic media acceleration working.

I'm used to running a minimal OS (OpenBSD mainly) and if everything works out of the box (audio, Window Manager), I'm happy. Ubuntu has great driver support and for my normal expectations of an open source OS, I actually feel spoiled...

[AArdvark]

This is not working out for me. The Haiku wifi support is minimal, which is a deal breaker. At this stage of the game I should not have to manually configure every hotspot from a command line.


THE
DEF/UNSATISFACTORY/GBN
AARDVARK

[RetroRomper]

Oh yes... Wifi support or lack there of.

The Broadcom and Intel / Atheros (I believe) chips are interesting in that source and documentation is readily available, but your at the mercy of the system connection tool (or as I discovered in Windows 2000, lack of one (the first and only time I used a third party utility to manage WiFi connections)).

LAN / Ethernet is still the default for less well supported operating systems (anything that isn't based on Linux) and until Intel or AMD begin to encourage vendors to include WiFi as a standard part of their chipsets, its doubtful this will change.

[AArdvark]

Flash drive.........formatted.

You know, for all the alternatives out there, Windows is looking better every time I try one of them.



THE
BEATEN PATH
AARDVARK

[Tdarcos]

Flash drive.........formatted.

You know, for all the alternatives out there, Windows is looking better every time I try one of them.

At least they're trying. I mean, considering what they have to work with to try to get Linux to be usable against what most everyone else is running, it is amazing.

Microsoft Windows has something like 85%+ of all computer usage of Intel-based machines. The other 15% is shared by non-Intel (which is the Power-PC, e.g. older Macintosh) or MacOS-based Intel boxes, servers running Linux, Unix or BSD and the occasional desktop machine running Linux or something else.

So figure Linux has about 8% of the entire market. There are two types of Linux; boxes used for servers that don't have to work as desktops, and the few that do. Servers might, at best, have to run Samba so they can act as file servers for Windows networks.

Now, machines that either run Linux as the primary desktop or in dual boot with Windows have an interesting problem: being able to provide the necessary tools the person needs to do whatever tasks they want to do. Sometimes it's pretty good, and sometimes it isn't. I had one distro that recognized my cheap $9 Tenda wireless card out of the box, I was able to use Firefox and I think I might have even posted a message here.

With the cracking of the NTFS file system, now a running Linux can read and write to a NTFS-formatted drive on the same machine so it can access the user's existing files as needed.

I had found before this that the easiest way to transfer files back-and-forth was either to use a floppy disc or a USB thumb drive, because Linux can handle both DOS and DOS-LFN drives (the version of the DOS file system that supports long file names.)

So they're getting there, and it keeps getting better all the time, but Linux still has problems with being transparently usable the way Windows routinely is. Of course, the reason being the billions of dollars spent on Windows and the relatively minor amounts of money in comparison available for Linux.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Windows 7 and XP made Linux pointless for a home desktop (work is another thing). But I'm positive Microsoft will fuck up whatever their next OS is, so long live Ubuntu, I guess.

In other news, all that open source shit proved it could get fucked when they showed that Open Office was going to be worked on indefinitely. THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT of Open Office is that people were tired with Microsoft fucking around with a word processor that should have been labeled "finished" 15 years ago. Fuck, any Word Processor past version 3 is worthless.

[RetroRomper]

Microsoft Windows has something like 85%+ of all computer usage of Intel-based machines. The other 15% is shared by non-Intel (which is the Power-PC, e.g. older Macintosh) or MacOS-based Intel boxes, servers running Linux, Unix or BSD and the occasional desktop machine running Linux or something else.

The market share not being dominated by Windows, is being shared by EVERY OTHER OS. Shocker... And non-intel? You mean anything that isn't x86? If your going to throw RISC / PowerPC based processors in there, 80% of the market is dominated by ARM (based on volume) / MIPS or whatever.

And why are you including servers? Why.... Are... You.... Including.... A... Completely.... Different.... Market.... Segment.... In your half ass analysis and dumbing down of the statistics of an entire industry?

Why do I care? I really don't...

So figure Linux has about 8% of the entire market.

Ergh Ergh Ergh "Mr. Imperial Evidence" or "Lets try to use my own internal logic to compute how popular some random brand is." Tell me, is this the year of LINUX ON THE DESKTOP?!

There are two types of Linux; boxes used for servers that don't have to work as desktops, and the few that do.

Is there anyone in the audience who doesn't have some smattering of background in IT? Anyone? Why the heck is this guy explaining to me what a server is?

Now, machines that either run Linux as the primary desktop or in dual boot with Windows have an interesting problem: being able to provide the necessary tools the person needs to do whatever tasks they want to do.

Proof read your posts? I guess you mean "Linux doesn't support some off brand, POS device I bought for $9 from a white van parked behind a gutted Circuit City." Please just say that "Linux sucks because some Chinese manufacturer decided to only support the OS that 90% of the world uses." Or I.E. "Obviously its the fault of the OS for not working with my cheap, half ass device."

(mmm... I found rape seeds in my Apple Turnover)

I had one distro that recognized my cheap $9 Tenda wireless card out of the box, I was able to use Firefox and I think I might have even posted a message here.

Good for you!

With the cracking of the NTFS file system, now a running Linux can read and write to a NTFS-formatted drive on the same machine so it can access the user's existing files as needed.

Cracked? It wasn't cracked, it was at best reverse engineered. Please don't try to paint Linux as a Pirate OS or "viral infection." And a stable NTFS driver has been available for the last EIGHT YEARS. I loaded experimental NTFS patches onto Linux soon after Windows XP was released and Debian has been shipping with NTFS support for the last five.

I had found before this that the easiest way to transfer files back-and-forth was either to use a floppy disc or a USB thumb drive, because Linux can handle both DOS and DOS-LFN drives (the version of the DOS file system that supports long file names.)

Note to the audience: the sane approach would have been to use FAT32, instead of employing a solution that is more to satisfy self gloating that consists of "Erp derp, I found a clever solution to a problem I created."

So they're getting there, and it keeps getting better all the time, but Linux still has problems with being transparently usable the way Windows routinely is.

Your right: Where are my multiple 3D work spaces in Linux? Oh wait...

Lets also completely ignore Gnome 2, Gnome 3, KDE, Unity, Ion, etc. as "baby OSes, that I'm obviously qualified to completely discard out of hand."

What exactly are you smoking? Do you have a medical license for it?

Of course, the reason being the billions of dollars spent on Windows and the relatively minor amounts of money in comparison available for Linux.

Urgh?

[Flack]

I don't know if Ubuntu passes the "grandma" test yet, but for basic computer users, it should be good enough at this point. You've got a web browser, e-mail, a word processor ... that's like 90% of what my grandma does. As long as it has Solitaire or Mind Sweeper, she'll be gold. For gamers, it's obviously a different story.

It's been so long since I paid for an operating system that it's not a deal breaker for me, but if they ever move to that monthly leasing fee they keep threatening to implement ... I guess we'll see if I can live on Linux.

[RetroRomper]

Windows 7 and XP made Linux pointless for a home desktop (work is another thing).

In my eyes, Windows Vista and then 7, actually made it crystal clear that 90% of everything I do on the OS, can be duplicated in any other environment. As an example, I've been using my "backup" 1000 mhz Linux machine as my main, only switching to my over powered laptop when I need to run horrible proprietary software (or Starcraft II).

But I'm positive Microsoft will fuck up whatever their next OS is, so long live Ubuntu, I guess.

I'm at the point where I'm seriously looking at either the Beagle Board or Raspberry Pi "credit card" computers as replacements for my main comp. Ubuntu is already my main OS and Linux is exactly the same regardless of hardware platform, so why not?

In other news, all that open source shit proved it could get fucked when they showed that Open Office was going to be worked on indefinitely. THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT of Open Office is that people were tired with Microsoft fucking around with a word processor that should have been labeled "finished" 15 years ago. Fuck, any Word Processor past version 3 is worthless.

LibreOffice (a fork of OpenOffice) is complete. Its stable. It works across any number of Unix, Linux, and alternative systems. As did OpenOffice: though if your not redesigning the interface every other generation, breaking old file formats so you can upsell your latest product, what exactly is "stable" in your eyes?

Microsoft has been doing this for years and the worst OpenOffice did was remove Java as a required component and adopt the ODF as its preferred format.

[RetroRomper]

I don't know if Ubuntu passes the "grandma" test yet, but for basic computer users, it should be good enough at this point.

When Vista was making the rounds as the default OS for new computers, I was "upgrading" a majority of my clients to either XP or more likely, Ubuntu. Some of the people I transitioned to Linux were grandmothers, and as long as I put a web shortcut on their desktop that said "e-mail," a folder for "pictures" and the like, they were fine.

It's been so long since I paid for an operating system that it's not a deal breaker for me, but if they ever move to that monthly leasing fee they keep threatening to implement ... I guess we'll see if I can live on Linux.

I've been running the student version of Windows 7 Ultimate (or whatever) and before that, it was a copy of Windows XP Pro from a volume license from my school's computer lab. The last version of Windows I bought was... Windows 98 SE?

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

In my eyes, Windows Vista and then 7, actually made it crystal clear that 90% of everything I do on the OS, can be duplicated in any other environment.

I'm with you - I don't want to use anything but Unix at work for the stuff we do. In fact, I wrote up a job req yesterday and all I really care about is that we get a Unix expert in. Even if they can't do anything else.

Buuuuuuut then Deus Ex: Human Revolution came out, and I'm never going to play long games in front of a TV. Even if it's the 60" Nigios that Ben just bought. So, welp, Windows.

LibreOffice (a fork of OpenOffice) is complete. Its stable. It works across any number of Unix, Linux, and alternative systems. As did OpenOffice: though if your not redesigning the interface every other generation, breaking old file formats so you can upsell your latest product, what exactly is "stable" in your eyes?

Microsoft has been doing this for years and the worst OpenOffice did was remove Java as a required component and adopt the ODF as its preferred format.

Last time I tried to use Open Office they did something where pasting text with formatting (or without formatting, I can't remember what I which I wanted to do) wasn't Cntl-V any more. It was like Alt-Enter or some shit. It was the beginning. When a programmer for a Word Processor thinks to himself, "Hm, I have a great idea to IMPROVE how we PASTE THINGS" it's time to build the word processor for the last time and shoot the build server with a gun. The word processor is now finished and anyone working on it can get fucked.

In my humble opinion.

[RetroRomper]

If they had implemented any sort of funky paste system, its been switched out long ago.

My biggest annoyance (and why I switched to abiword) was when a paper I wrote in LibreOffice couldn't be saved, copied, or pasted without the entire package crashing on me. Had to screen grab the document and transcribe everything (fifteen pages) into word pad.