books?

[AArdvark]

I never mastered euchre. The whole crossboarding aspect ruined it. I know partners that had it down like a magician psychic mind readind trick. I just wanted to play cards and drink beers, not necessarily in that order

[pinback]

Also "Euchre can never be beaten because me and my high school buddy Gareth would totally crush everyone in study hall" is not a good argument.

[Casual Observer]

Also "Euchre can never be beaten because me and my high school buddy Gareth would totally crush everyone in study hall" is not a good argument.

The point is partners can cheat with subtle cues that a computer team couldn't decipher. Poker isn't a team sport.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Also "Euchre can never be beaten because me and my high school buddy Gareth would totally crush everyone in study hall" is not a good argument.

Right, if you CHEAT, right, computers can't beat you. If I go into the board editor, I can take down every chess game no matter how poorly I start.

God, I hate cheaters in euchre. Euchre is a beautiful game unless one pair of players is cheating. WITH THEIR STUPID SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGNS. And unfortunately, western New Yorkers like nothing better than cheating other people at stuff. My brother would get on a pinochle site with his roommate and the two of them would call out cards (or whatever, never played pinochle) to each other.

We had a euchre tournament in college and we didn't announce teams ahead of time and it was a good time. We tried to have a sequel and then another sequel and I think I tried organizing one and I made the mistake of announcing teams beforehand and the fuckers worked on their stupid "signs".

[Casual Observer]

It was too fucking easy not to cheat in Euchre and I don't believe that any two people who play more than one day of Euchre games as partners don't crossboard constantly. For some godforsaken reason, people like to hit the table in Euchre when they pick up, call, or pass. We just agreed to hit the table only when we wanted the other partner to pick up. That's it. We used a bizarre thing that people were doing to signal. I don't believe for a second that the other teams were doing something similar. Maybe two AI's could figure a way to do this within their given parameters, like wait say "p" then wait .00001 second longer to say "ass".

[pinback]

We just agreed to hit the table only when we wanted the other partner to pick up. That's it.

Right. Cheating.

I should have been more clear, yes, the book and I are only referring to games when played by the rules.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

It was too fucking easy not to cheat in Euchre and I don't believe that any two people who play more than one day of Euchre games as partners don't crossboard constantly. For some godforsaken reason, people like to hit the table in Euchre when they pick up, call, or pass. We just agreed to hit the table only when we wanted the other partner to pick up. That's it. We used a bizarre thing that people were doing to signal. I don't believe for a second that the other teams were doing something similar. Maybe two AI's could figure a way to do this within their given parameters, like wait say "p" then wait .00001 second longer to say "ass".

A clarification question - right, if EVERYONE is cross boarding then you know what you are in for and I have no problem with that. For me, part of the fun is trying to get a "feeling" about the others players and what they might have and making decisions that way. But a computer knowing the odds would be something else. Re-reading what I wrote, because of the order of the messages it comes off like I am talking about you which I am not, it was more about my own experiences with people being all coy about cheating in a card game because they went over signs beforehand.

[pinback]

This is like talking about Monopoly, but making purchasing/auctioning properties optional. You're talking about a different game. There's Euchre, and then there's Euchre Except Everyone Is Cheating.

[Casual Observer]

This is like talking about Monopoly, but making purchasing/auctioning properties optional. You're talking about a different game. There's Euchre, and then there's Euchre Except Everyone Is Cheating.

Theres a reason why EVERYBODY thumps the table during Euchre and it ain't just because they are excited. It's straight up communication every time.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

If everyone is cheating, why not show everyone their cards then?

[Casual Observer]

I'm not sure it should really be considered cheatinig as it seems built into the "culture" of the game. It's really just binary communication though, essentially saying "I have enough trump cards to win a couple of tricks but not enough to carry the hand". It's a yes/no signal to your partner to consider whether to call or pass. So its nowhere near having all the cards up.

[pinback]

You can try to rationalize it and justify it any way you want, but you would be immediately expelled from any serious Euchre tournament. It's cheating, and you can't do it. Just because you and your goofball friends all think you're crafty and it's your "culture", I mean, that's fine, have fun, but don't pretend you're playing Euchre.

[AArdvark]

"If you aint cheating, you aint trying."

Anyway, computers will never master cheating, they don't need to. You have to play by their rules or they wont play.

THE
DOES NOT COMPUTE!
AARDVARK

[Casual Observer]

You can try to rationalize it and justify it any way you want, but you would be immediately expelled from any serious Euchre tournament. It's cheating, and you can't do it. Just because you and your goofball friends all think you're crafty and it's your "culture", I mean, that's fine, have fun, but don't pretend you're playing Euchre.

Well, duh, you have a different partner every time so how would that work.

[pinback]

So what are you talking about? "Computers will never beat me and my buddies at Euchre because we cheat." Okay, great input as always.

[Casual Observer]

So what are you talking about? "Computers will never beat me and my buddies at Euchre because we cheat." Okay, great input as always.

Thanks, happy to provide input. Since 'Vark is the only one here who seems to have played Euchre or at least seen it played with his ears plugged, I'll elaborate what i'm talking about. I've seen Euchre played not just in study hall but also my wife's grandmothers house as well as various random times. Social gaming is different than tournament gaming, I think, I think you know that. You've probably read that Euchre is Bridge's "louder faster cousin", part of which is the fact that you can either say "pass" or just hit the table or, here's the thing, you can do both at the same time. I started out wondering why sometimes people would do one or the other or both but pretty quickly our minds (me and my partner) went to how that would be a perfect undetectable signal. There is literally no way that everyone or at least most intelligent people to not see that. And, here's where it's not really cheating, if everyone knows it can be done then why not listen and watch the other team and not pick up a hand you'll lose? It's literally what Edgar Allen Poe said about Bridge (and Poker) that they require a mastery of a completely different skill than logic, the ability to read the room. Poe said chess (and go, etc) take excellence in logic which is why the computers kill at it.

Poker was ruined by texas hold'm and the internet dragging thousands of shitheads who think they can get rich from playing Poker the rest of their life out of their shitty construction jobs. If those assholes on tv all the time (still, right? or did we move on from that bullshit) in tourneys are just memorizing shit then they're sitting ducks for a real expert.

[odyssia76]

Yes, it's hard sci-fi with freakin' vampires in it. In fact, the captain of the mission is a vampire.And it's amazing. Everybody should read it

What book is this?

[odyssia76]

L. Ron Hubbard's Battlefield Earth is a much better book than Dahlgren. Hell, a book of literal shit thrown at it by monkeys would be a better book than Dahlgren.

"This is not a book to be cast aside lightly. It should be hurled with great force."
- Dorothy Parker

[odyssia76]

I think the best card game is Hearts. Like all my favorite games it's a nice mix of luck and skill, strategy and tactics. It's "simple to learn, hard to master." It would be very hard to cheat since it's not team-based.

I imagine if I were like you guys and took things to a professional level (if there even is one for Hearts) there would be ways to cheat, but I just like playing with friends and family, where nobody is competitive enough to cheat. The only advantage good players have is a good memory for which cards have been played and how many of each suit. Is it cheating if it's all 100% in your own head?

[pinback]

I've seen Euchre played not just in study hall but also my wife's grandmothers house

Guys, he's seen Euchre in study hall AND his wife's grandmother's house, so listen up.

And, here's where it's not really cheating

It's against the rules.

Poker was ruined by texas hold'm and the internet dragging thousands of shitheads who think they can get rich from playing Poker the rest of their life out of their shitty construction jobs. If those assholes on tv all the time (still, right? or did we move on from that bullshit) in tourneys are just memorizing shit then they're sitting ducks for a real expert.

In this thread, CO opines that poker was "ruined" by... lots more people playing it?