JC Denizens' Investment Advice??

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Please, no name-calling. All are welcome at JC BBS.

[Casual Observer]

Fixed.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Cold calling is still fine.

[odyssia76]

B2B cold calling isn't about lying, in fact it's the opposite.

And yet, a few messages previously...

just tell them about zoominfo and how they got his number and lie to him

Hmmm!

Oh, it's not a real business yet, you betcha, it's a 2 person consultancy working for 3 clients. It's incorporated and has a US tax ID so in that sense it's a real business though.

Wow, so you went to your state's web site, filled out a form, and paid a small fee? Then went to another page and filled out the online IRS form for an EIN? Amazing! How long did it take you, 20 minutes? It definely proves you're a Real Boy, because only Highly Respected Businesspeople are allowed to do it, not just any clod with $75. No other loser mope freelancer has ever Incorporated for tax reasons, nuh-un!

sorry you're such a fucking fragile snowflake that receiving a phone call is considered "abuse". OK, millineal.

. Thanks for making my day, kid!

[odyssia76]

Please, no name-calling. All are welcome at JC BBS.

Anyone who refers to me or any other woman as "honey" - especially on purpose, specifically to be denigrating - needs to understand what the reaction will be, and be prepared to deal with the fallout.

[Casual Observer]

Please, no name-calling. All are welcome at JC BBS.

Anyone who refers to me or any other woman as "honey" - especially on purpose, specifically to be denigrating - needs to understand what the reaction will be, and be prepared to deal with the fallout.

fair enough, I'm familiar with such fallout.

[Tdarcos]

I'm not going to get into it, but Bitcoin isn't fungible,

Yes, bitcoin is fungible. Every Bitcoin that is worth one BTC is the same as any other worth exactly one. Any fractional Bitcoin is worth the same as any other identical frction. Diamonds and artwork are not, nor is real estate, e.g. one hectare of land in a rural part of Nye County, NV is not worth the same as one hectare of land in New York City.

and what kind of moron thinks silver bars are a better investment than a house. Christ.

The kind who has seen housing prices collapse, and stay down, for years. Anyone remember when the S&L Crisis caused Texas real estate values to crater? Anyone remember when the housing bubble burst in 2009? Has anyone looked at housing prices now, these prices are not sustainable and sooner or later there will be a crash.

Once people find those who want to buy houses can't (or won't) pay the overinglated price, hosing prices are going to drop like a rock. The vast majority of working people - who are the ones who buy houses - cannot afford the cost of a house.

Long term silver has been an excellent store of bvalue. But I did not say that you should not buy a house. I said it fails some of the laws of stable money. Yes, long term, home values do go up, but they can go down, and can stay down, sometimes for years That's an excellent time to buy a home, when everyone has panicked and it's a buyer's market, but never forget that the three rules of buying land are: location, location, location.

I'm sure some S. Vietnamese worker who bought a house in Saigon in 1969 thought it was a good investment, only to see it made worthless when the south collapsed and the Communist north took over 2 years later, and nobody owns anything.

[Tdarcos]

I think tdarcos is wrong to advise gold.

Let's see. Back in 2019 - while I was in Room 240 and My Brother and sister were bringing my computer - I recommended he borrow about $25,000 to buy 1 ounce American Eagle coins, too small to make adultrating with less valuable metals profitable, and legal for 401K or Rotj IRA. Since I don't remember when, I'll use a worst case and take the highest price in 2019. which was: $1,393.34. In 2021, the lowest price was $1,676.00. So if my brother had bought 20 coins, that would have been $27,866.80*. The lowest price this year would make them worth at least $33,520.00. That's at least a 10% return on investment per year. Or if he had wanted to go no higher tha $25,000, he could by 17,9 ounces, which today is worth at least $30,000.49, which, again, is about a 10% year-over-year increase.

Inflation is only going to get worse, and gold loves inflation, because it makes it more valuable.

* American eagle coins come in the 1/10 ounce size, so you can round a purchase to the nearest 1/10 ounce price if you only want to spend a certain amount.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Please, no name-calling. All are welcome at JC BBS.

Anyone who refers to me or any other woman as "honey" - especially on purpose, specifically to be denigrating - needs to understand what the reaction will be, and be prepared to deal with the fallout.

Ok, it sounds like the parties in this discussion are ok without needing interference from me. That is fine. As the new poster, I don't want to see you get crapped on because if that happens then we will never get new posters.

The abuse you are getting is not SysOp-approved is all I am saying.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

I'm on mobile, so I am not going to quote you, but no, Bitcoin is not fungible. They can be tracked in the transactions made with parts of a Bitcoin. Certain places are DENYING transactions because a piece of a Bitcoin you have was tracked upstream to a fraudulent transaction.

The thing about silver being a better investment than a home because some guy bought a McMansion in Vietnam in 1959 may be the stupidest thing I've ever read. I'm sure if that guy bought thousands of silver bars and was therefore renting, the communist scum that would have taken his home were just going to let him keep his Singe the Dragon-like hoard of treasure and let him keep sleeping on that.

I want you to admit you're wrong about silver being a better investment than a home.

[odyssia76]

I'm not going to get into it, but Bitcoin isn't fungible,

Yes, bitcoin is fungible. Every Bitcoin that is worth one BTC is the same as any other worth exactly one.

He's got you there, ICJ. He is right.

and what kind of moron thinks silver bars are a better investment than a house. Christ.

The kind who has seen housing prices collapse, and stay down, for years.

Well, first of all, it depends on what you mean by "investing." If you mean "take excess capital and make a speculative investmennt in real estate in order to make a profit", that's one thing - call that " buying a HOUSE". If you mean "buy a building for you to live in" - call the "buying a HOME"; then the answers get very different. The former could be compared to an investment in previous metals, but the latter can't, for many reasons. You can't live in a gold Eagle, for example - homes have utility to the owner. So - apples and oranges due to squishy variables.

Once people find those who want to buy houses can't (or won't) pay the overinglated price, hosing prices are going to drop like a rock.

Not nearly as much as you think. The demand for housing is inelastic - people always need a place to live. Right now there is high demand and low supply. The current situation will last until the supply goes up, and houses don't spring up overnight. Eventually the market will correct itself, but it's gonna take a bunch of years.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

I'm not going to get into it, but Bitcoin isn't fungible,

Yes, bitcoin is fungible. Every Bitcoin that is worth one BTC is the same as any other worth exactly one.

He's got you there, ICJ. He is right.

Do you guys not know what the word "fungible" means? Is it a definition problem? Every BTC transaction is tracked and logged. This feature is a minor part of the blockchain, admittedly, which is almost never mentioned when people discuss bitcoin, so I get how people can miss it.

I actually totally understand how people can miss it and the result COULD be that the don't know what they are talking about. I wish someone would create a site like https://www.bitcoinabuse.com/ or something that tracked bitcoins used in fraud and scams so that exchanges could not allow transactions with those flagged bitcoins. Maybe someday. :/

[Casual Observer]

Ody and commander, there's a good description of non-fungable here:

[Tdarcos]

The thing about silver being a better investment than a home because some guy bought a McMansion in Vietnam in 1959 may be the stupidest thing I've ever read.

1. I said 1969, 2 years before Saigon fell.
2. I never said a "mansion" I said a house. Just something an ordinary working stiff could afford.

I'm sure if that guy bought thousands of silver bars and was therefore renting, the communist scum that would have taken his home were just going to let him keep his Singe the Dragon-like hoard of treasure and let him keep sleeping on that.

Are you that dense? If he has that much, he takes what he can in a suitcase with him and uses the rest to bribe his way out of the country, possibly before it falls. The guy who owns just a home has an illiquid, immobile asset that can easily be seized.

A number of Jews escaped Nazi Germany by having diamonds they could trade for an exit visa or other things which are useful in such a case. Easily moved property is much more valuable in a crisis.

I want you to admit you're wrong about silver being a better investment than a home.

As soon as you tell me how to pick up and take that home with you. A good investment will work as long as things are normal and some semblance of civilization remains. Then, sure, houses can be a good investment. But, if your house is terribly overpriced, or the market has crashed, you might not be able to sell, and if something goes wrong in your personal life where you need funds, you may have to sell in despiration which means the price goes down, drastically, or maybe the bubble pops, and you owe more than the house can sell for.

Precious metals are themselves an asset because you own them outright and don't have to pay a mortgage, that if you lose your income you might not be able to sell or might lose. Right now the housing market is extremely inflated, and with the tax benefits of home ownership, it makes economic sense to buy a home instead of rentinh if your net costs are comparable.

But don't tell me an illiquid, immobile, and difficult to sell object is a beter "investment" than an item that is intrinsically valuable, very portable, and easily converted to cash, plus has no record of ownership with the government for them to know about, or seize,

I'm not going to convince you of anything, but I will say this. Consider a house as an alternative to renting if the cost is within your budget and you're willing to put up with the hassles involved. But right now I think housing as an investment is speculative, high risk, and in a bubble which is going to burst.

I could be wrong. But if I am right, those who waited will be able to get some real bargains.

[odyssia76]

Tdarcos, man... As usual you are technically and theoretically correct. Most of the stuff you say is true. But that doesn't make you right. I know nothing about you or your life, so please don't take this the wrong way since it isn't personal, but I suspect your investment knowledge is hypothetical and not from personal experience. You talk about investment the way a virgin talks about sex or a new West Point grad talks about combat. My response to what you say is mostly "well, yes, but...".

As I mentioned, the word "investment" means different things to different people, and there absolutely is NOT One Magic Investment that is right for everyone. For example, people whose net worth is 4 or 5 digits long have different goals and priorities than people who are at 6 or 7 digits.

To go into all the details would take way more time than I want to spend. But the short version is that if one were to come up with an equation to determine the best investment for them, that equation would have about 20 variables in it. That's why any good advisor will start by asking things like your age, income, family status, goals, future plans, retirement situation, savings, and so on - because all that matters.

Precious metals are a decent part of a portfolio for people who are either A) very very wealthy and will hold them on paper as part of a highly diversified strategy, or B) survivalists who think the world will end soon and want something to trade for that tasty rat carcass. But for regular middle class people, there are more pragmatic concerns. For example, according to your view, it would be better to live in a lean-to in the woods and have a suitcase full of $100k worth of gold coins. Most people would prefer to use those coins to buy a home worth $100k because they can't live in a a pile of money.

You also show some naivete about homes specifically. For example, to you a home is a permanently frozen asset that's useless if you need cash. But of course, like any asset, it can be borrowed against. Ever heard of a HELOC?

A home is a good investment, especially for regular folks of an age where they don't plan to be moving around. It's just a different kind than an index fund. And while those of us who are kinda planning to die peacefully of old age in our beds at home may regret it if there is an apocalypse and you have gold to trade for medicine and we don't, we will also have doors to shut and lock while you throw your coins at the zombies.

[Flack]

A home is a good investment, especially for regular folks of an age where they don't plan to be moving around.

Well, that includes Tdarcos.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Man, that's a lot of words from Tdarcos to avoid saying, "ICJ was right about bitcoins and I sure was wrong."

(He's wrong about houses, too.)

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

"But don't tell me an illiquid, immobile, and difficult to sell object is a beter "investment" than an item that is intrinsically valuable, very portable, and easily converted to cash, plus has no record of ownership with the government for them to know about, or seize"

Jesus Christ. Getting your house seized by Nazis and communists is not something adults have to worry about in America. It's insane that your made up scenario is something you are worrying about.

And then - god, you think silver is "intrinsically valuable" and a home isn't. I don't think you know what the word intrinsic means. Unless you are Kodak or have an infestation of werewolves, silver is not "intrinsically" more valuable than a house.

I also don't think you know how much silver weighs.

I'm letting go of the rent vs own thing because some people here don't have a choice, but owning is the better option in 95 percent of all cases.

[Flack]

I have combined everyone's advice and am now renting silver as part of my retirement plan.

[AArdvark]

Hi yo Silver, awayyyy!