I need some help so I can release Cryptozookeeper.

[AArdvark]

Is there any other text game in the history of the world that has the main character vomiting so a dog can lap it up?



THE
CHUCKLES!
AARDVARK


thank you! i swear i will exhaust every other possibility that I can think of before I beg for more hints in the upcoming puzzles.

[bruce]

I just want to say that Golem, the model for Puzzle, is still alive!

He's 11, which is like a million in Swissy years, and who knows how much longer he'll make it given that his legs work sporadically at best these days, but goddamn it he's still here.

Bruce

[AArdvark]

Well he ate me fifteen times before I gave up, sweaty and frustrated ( I was playing the game on my front porch in the heat) before I came a-begging here. There really must be a part of one's brain that becomes weak and flabby from disuse. I see, in hindsight, that the answer was obvious (or kinda obvious, anyway) It's been what, five or six years since I played a text adventure... more than that, I think. This is the same brain part that doesn't even try and figure out the mystery stories..Last year I grabbed all the Agatha Christie novels in plain text format, right? Started reading them at work during lunch, transport the flash drive home and read some more. Back in the day, when I would borrow the Christie novels from the library (i'm old now) I could usually work out a passable solution before the big reveal in the book. Not always, but more than half the time. Then I stopped reading, or greatly reduced my print intake, as it were. Nowadays I could not, nor am I greatly inclined, to think about the story. I seem content to just read till the end and start another. This sheep-like behavior greatly saddens and is not just a little bit alarming to me. I figure I can start playing text adventure games again as a way to get back into superior brain mode. That's why I made sure there is no way my old laptop can connect to the internet and I sit out on the front porch. No distractions from TV, phone or email. Just brain to fingers to keyboard.


THE
FOCUS
AARDVARK

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Is there any other text game in the history of the world that has the main character vomiting so a dog can lap it up?

Level 9 did an adaption of of Casablanca that --

thank you! i swear i will exhaust every other possibility that I can think of before I beg for more hints in the upcoming puzzles.

Well, I mean, here's the thing. I hope that in the game, when a solution is revealed, you say "Ah, I didn't get that, but it was clued." But you have an entire community of people on this BBS. I would submit there is no need to suffer through possibilities with all of us here. If you get stuck, why not ask us here? I benefit by knowing which parts of the game weren't set up well for players, you get to enjoy the thing at a good clip, and we all get to enjoy some uncut pizza.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

I just want to say that Golem, the model for Puzzle, is still alive!

He's 11, which is like a million in Swissy years, and who knows how much longer he'll make it given that his legs work sporadically at best these days, but goddamn it he's still here.

Bruce

Golem is a star, a real pleasure to work with. I am delighted that he is still hobbling up those stairs!

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Discs currently being duplicated. I'm well on my way to losing my ass. I really wanted to be able to give copies to everyone who helped me make the game, but I'm gonna be unable to. Crud!

Also, this kills me. The Humble Bundle 3 is out. You can pay the devs whatever you want. Well, it's been a few days and they've grossed almost a million dollars. So the five guys involved are splitting 200K. (Approximately; some of that money is going to other sources.) I think it's safe to say that making Cryptozookeeper a free game has done exactly nothing for me. If I had charged some nominal fee, $5 or whatever, I could still have given a download link out to my text game friends and still maintained monetary value for projects like this. Now, I think the Humble Bundle is clearly gunning for something like, "Get famous first, then we'll contact you" but still. Charles Barkley: Shut Up And Jam Gaiden is an excellent, free game and not involved in anything like this.

I mean, it sounds good, releasing a game for free. But a cost for your work is now a feature. It really used to be, "I believe in this work, have it for free. I want it out there." It's not like that any longer.

Text games are a bit different, because you can make a quick one, but releasing a major work for free in 2011 locks more doors than it will ever open for you. That is my experience in all this, and I hope these words find the appropriate audience.

[Tdarcos]

Discs currently being duplicated. I'm well on my way to losing my ass.

What the hell kind of stupid imbecile makes discs for a game and doesn't charge for them? If the user wants it for free, you put up a download link and let them download it. That's what the Internet is for. If you have to spend money then the person wanting it by disc should pay for it. I mean, Internet distribution is going to cost basically zero. Distribution by CD or DVD is about equal, about 20c each, a penny for a disc carrier, 5c for the envelope and 44c to mail it. That means it costs about 70c to send out a disk. Even a minimum $2 fee is reasonable and $5 seems acceptable if someone wants it on disc bad enough.

DOOM and Duke Nukem 3 had shareware editions where you got the first 1/3 for free, then paid a regular fee for the 2nd and 3rd installments. I bought both the DOS and Windows versions of DOOM, and the DOS version of DN3. But the list price for the disc copy - as opposed to a download, which was free - was $9.95.

If the program needs installing, Inno Setup is free and open source and can build virtually any type of installer, so that can be included as part of the download or as a setup program attached to an Autorun manifest.

Text games are a bit different, because you can make a quick one, but releasing a major work for free in 2011 locks more doors than it will ever open for you. That is my experience in all this, and I hope these words find the appropriate audience.

I'll say this, either you're expecting to sell people a hint book for CryptoZookeeper or your game has to be easily solvable. It's why I gave up on your game, it wasn't intuitive. The puzzles were esoteric and overly complicated, the help was nonexistent, and the game frustrating and unsolvable.

I mean, you look at Portal 2, a few of the puzzles are very difficult, but at least you can find help when you get stumped. I used videos on YouTube in exactly that way. I'd play till I got stumped, then look and see how someone else did it, then I'd do it and then often it would be an hour or more before I'd need help again.

One of the things that made me decide CryptoZookeeper was unforgivably bad was that if you didn't do something eventually the dog would kill you. This is unacceptable. Using the "gold standard" of the two best of the IF programs, Collossal Caves adventure and Dungeon, unless you did something stupid, like jump a cliff, attack someone or walk around in darkness, you don't get killed.

This renders CZ nonplayable.

And it was nonintuitive, and exploration or trying commands does nothing for you, or, again, increases the likelihood you get killed. I'm not stupid - at least I don't think I am - but the game was just too complicated for me and failed my expectations of what an IF game is supposed to be. Fun, not frustration.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

What the hell kind of stupid imbecile makes discs for a game and doesn't charge for them?

This is gonna be hard to believe, but you comprehended that wrong. I am going to sell the hard copies.

If the user wants it for free, you put up a download link and let them download it. That's what the Internet is for. If you have to spend money then the person wanting it by disc should pay for it. I mean, Internet distribution is going to cost basically zero. Distribution by CD or DVD is about equal, about 20c each, a penny for a disc carrier, 5c for the envelope and 44c to mail it. That means it costs about 70c to send out a disk. Even a minimum $2 fee is reasonable and $5 seems acceptable if someone wants it on disc bad enough.

OK, you're wrong, because I am getting the hard copies made with a professional duplicator and packaging company. Are you just talking about shipping them? I have no idea what you are saying here.

I'll say this, either you're expecting to sell people a hint book for CryptoZookeeper or your game has to be easily solvable. It's why I gave up on your game, it wasn't intuitive. The puzzles were esoteric and overly complicated, the help was nonexistent, and the game frustrating and unsolvable.

Paul, there were seven spots in the game where the game itself told you how to talk to people. Ben and I had an e-mail conversation with you DIRECTLY TELLING YOU the steps needed to converse with people. You still weren't getting it. The only way it could have been less "esoteric" would be if someone broke into your house and literally typed the commands into your computer.

I mean, you look at Portal 2, a few of the puzzles are very difficult, but at least you can find help when you get stumped.

Seven different spots. SEVEN DIFFERENT SPOTS. The "Help." The routine that checks to see if you've spoken to anyone in the first five turns and tells you how to do so if not. Typing ">about". Etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. There was nothing else I could do!

One of the things that made me decide CryptoZookeeper was unforgivably bad was that if you didn't do something eventually the dog would kill you. This is unacceptable. Using the "gold standard" of the two best of the IF programs, Collossal Caves adventure and Dungeon, unless you did something stupid, like jump a cliff, attack someone or walk around in darkness, you don't get killed.

Colossal Cave and Dungeon came out in the 70s and are so far removed from being the "gold standard". There were 30 years of advances between Colossal Cave and a game today.

But if you want to talk about game design, we can talk about game design. Do nothing in Planetfall by Infocom for as long as you can and tell me how long the game is. Do nothing in Hitch-Hiker's Guide by Infocom and tell me how long the game is. Do nothing in Leather Goddesses and tell me how long the game is till your bladder bursts. Do nothing in Spellcasting 101 and tell me how long the game is until your stepfather kills you. If anything, the whole "initial puzzle is a deadly one" is a text game TROPE.

This is the 8th game I have made. I was in a documentary about them. I have played at least a hundred, probably 500 text adventures. I know what I am doing. A guy who's last experience with the genre was the very first one ever, which came out in 1976 or something is going to tell us all what the state of the genre is like.

This renders CZ nonplayable.

Do nothing in Duke 3D Shareware and Doom Shareware and you die. Play virtually every single arcade game and do nothing and see how long the game lasts. Do ... do you understand how retarded it would be if you were playing a game and it just let you chill forever? You have just pronounced 80% of all computer games nonplayable.

And it was nonintuitive, and exploration or trying commands does nothing for you, or, again, increases the likelihood you get killed. I'm not stupid - at least I don't think I am - but the game was just too complicated for me and failed my expectations of what an IF game is supposed to be. Fun, not frustration.

You have a certain inability to comprehend things people are telling you. You're not stupid, and your ability to speak about IF as if you know everything there is to know about the genre with a 35-year gap in games is a bit maddening, but that's fine. But here's the logic leap you never made:

- The dog is trying to eat me
- How can I get him to stop eating me?

Let me turn it around. Let's say you are designing a game. A dog is going to eat you. The point of the dog eating you is when the dog talks and says "Sorry" before doing so, thus demonstrating to the player that there are element of cryptozoology (the talking dog) in everyday life.

You won't kill the player, so that's out, but let's table that for a second. Player is getting eaten by a dog -- how would YOU design a puzzle around that? Perhaps we can all learn something here, my friend.

[Flack]

I would design it to where someone broke into my house and literally typed the commands into my computer, after purchasing the hint book for your game full of esoteric and overly complicated puzzles.

[pinback]

I'll say this, either you're expecting to sell people a hint book for CryptoZookeeper or your game has to be easily solvable. It's why I gave up on your game, it wasn't intuitive. The puzzles were esoteric and overly complicated, the help was nonexistent, and the game frustrating and unsolvable.

Paul, there were seven spots in the game where the game itself told you how to talk to people. Ben and I had an e-mail conversation with you DIRECTLY TELLING YOU the steps needed to converse with people. You still weren't getting it. The only way it could have been less "esoteric" would be if someone broke into your house and literally typed the commands into your computer.

That whole episode really was inexcusable. I demand the right to post the contents of that private email exchange so you can all appreciate what ICJ -- and let's face it, I -- were dealing with back then.

I demand either that right, or an apology of some sort.

[Tdarcos]

Do nothing in Duke 3D Shareware and Doom Shareware and you die.

And again you show your ignorance. Neither Duke Nukem nor DOOM are Interactive Fiction games. You're doing an apples vs. oranges comparison. I referenced them over the concept of charging for copies, not as a comparison as another IF game.

But since you're comparing them, at what point did you announce that CryptoZookeeper was a first-person shooter?

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

I'll say this, either you're expecting to sell people a hint book for CryptoZookeeper or your game has to be easily solvable. It's why I gave up on your game, it wasn't intuitive. The puzzles were esoteric and overly complicated, the help was nonexistent, and the game frustrating and unsolvable.

Paul, there were seven spots in the game where the game itself told you how to talk to people. Ben and I had an e-mail conversation with you DIRECTLY TELLING YOU the steps needed to converse with people. You still weren't getting it. The only way it could have been less "esoteric" would be if someone broke into your house and literally typed the commands into your computer.

That whole episode really was inexcusable. I demand the right to post the contents of that private email exchange so you can all appreciate what ICJ -- and let's face it, I -- were dealing with back then.

I demand either that right, or an apology of some sort.

Yes, post it.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Do nothing in Duke 3D Shareware and Doom Shareware and you die.

And again you show your ignorance. Neither Duke Nukem nor DOOM are Interactive Fiction games. You're doing an apples vs. oranges comparison. I referenced them over the concept of charging for copies, not as a comparison as another IF game.

I ... okay, this isn't worth a coronary. Did you see the part where I referenced 4 text games?

But since you're comparing them, at what point did you announce that CryptoZookeeper was a first-person shooter?

It shifts to an FPS in the third room.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

I have the following questions for Tdarcos. They are all a result of his claim that Colossal Cave is the gold standard of IF.

1) According to this walkthrough: http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Colossal_C ... alkthrough you, at one point in the game, need to "wave rod." Waving the rod scares the bird, which (as we see in the transcript) lets you get the diamond. My question is: How is this any sort of logical leap? There's nothing to indicate that waving the rod will do that.

2) According to this walkthrough, a required command is XYZZY to get back to the well house: http://www.lisashea.com/gaming/strategy ... alk_1.html I'd like Tdarcos to speak how that makes any logical sense.

3) Again, according to this walkthrough, a dwarf can randomly appear and throw axes at you: http://www.lisashea.com/gaming/strategy ... alk_2.html I'd like Tdarcos to speak to the following: How is a dwarf with an infinite number of axes to injure the character a gold standard, but a talking dog that eats you because it's introducing the character to a fantastic beast (and game's raison d'etre) isn't?

Isn't it SAFE TO SAY Cryptozookeeper makes more sense that Colossal Cave? (Not bragging: most text games make more sense than CC.)

Isn't it SAFE TO SAY Tdarcos didn't know what he was talking about when he said that CC was some standard to measure a ware against?

Isn't it SAFE TO SAY that Tdarcos was and is quite wrong here?

[pinback]

I think this whole thing has driven him off for good, so your questions will go UNANSWERED.

Sir.

[sgranade]

This has been most enlightening and entertaining for me, at least.

DANCE FOR ME, ICJ. DANCE FOR MY ENTERTAINMENT.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

This has been most enlightening and entertaining for me, at least.

DANCE FOR ME, ICJ. DANCE FOR MY ENTERTAINMENT.

I feel like dancing!

UPDATE. The packs that I am going to be selling are being shipped to my home. They are on their way!

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

I would design it to where someone broke into my house and literally typed the commands into my computer, after purchasing the hint book for your game full of esoteric and overly complicated puzzles.

That's fair, and hopefully I can "work that in" to the next story.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

I submitted my game to MeFi Projects (otherwise known as http://projects.metafilter.com). This illustrates a thing Kent has said before, which is, "Nobody cares about your work." Now I can't find the exact quote. Argh. But he said that in reference to his attempts at promoting Future Boy!.

Posting the link over there resulted in 24 hits from Metafilter over to the game's page. That's OK because there wasn't much of a time investment in the write-up.

People "vote" for things on the page there. Crypto got 2 votes. A website that mimics some kind of per-character Unix chat got 17 votes, and a blog about a girl who puts up pictures of herself wearing skirts got 4.

[pinback]

and a blog about a girl who puts up pictures of herself wearing skirts got 4.

link plz