Jolt Country

Ben, this has been quite a year. Thanks for letting us in on your journey to sobriety and svelteness. This might be the only time you hear this from the peanut gallery, but you've seriously been an inspiration to all of us. We're all silently making changes to our lives and trying to become better and trying to get closer to that ideal person we think we ought to be. Sure, we believe we'd have done it all anyway regardless of what happened on the BBS, but really it's all happening because you blazed a trail for us first.

Just imagine how fucked we will all be if you ever start to backslide. Happy birthday, buddy!

For the record, I remembered his birthday a day in advance.

Happy birthday, Mr. Parrish.

Happy Birthday, pig out and get boozed up, birthdays don't count.

Happy birthday

bryanb wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:41 pm Ben, this has been quite a year. Thanks for letting us in on your journey to sobriety and svelteness. This might be the only time you hear this from the peanut gallery, but you've seriously been an inspiration to all of us. We're all silently making changes to our lives and trying to become better and trying to get closer to that ideal person we think we ought to be. Sure, we believe we'd have done it all anyway regardless of what happened on the BBS, but really it's all happening because you blazed a trail for us first.

Thank you for your kind words. It has been a remarkable year, which I take absolutely no personal credit for. If I should serve as an inspiration, it should be for this: That regardless of your age, there is always a chance for the smallest change of perspective, the most subtle shift in consciousness to occur, resulting in a profound transformation the likes of which you could never imagine.

Nothing I have done should be in the least bit inspirational. It was all after-effects.

Happy Birthday, pig out and get boozed up, birthdays don't count.

No on the former, yes on the latter. Which... yeah, once a year is enough, I think.

pinback wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:07 amIf I should serve as an inspiration, it should be for this: That regardless of your age, there is always a chance for the smallest change of perspective, the most subtle shift in consciousness to occur, resulting in a profound transformation the likes of which you could never imagine.

I'm curious - was there some recent "change of perspective" or "subtle shift in consciousness" that you experienced which helped you accomplish your goals somehow?

Great question!

Yes.

pinback wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:33 pm Yes.

I would like it if you told us what it is.

Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:37 pm

pinback wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:33 pm Yes.

I would like it if you told us what it is.

No chance. People who know me have other avenues through which we can discuss (and have discussed) such things. Any engagement with you is an invitation for you to belittle anyone else's thoughts with your own superior intellect.

Let me tell you something, pallie.

I'm laughing at the "superior intellect".

pinback wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:36 pm No chance. People who know me have other avenues through which we can discuss (and have discussed) such things.
Any engagement with you is an invitation for you to belittle anyone else's thoughts with your own superior intellect.

Ah, so your new revelation is too weak to stand the forges of debate, eh? Gotcha! See, I work the other way. I put my opinions and thoughts right out there for people to pick apart. Because unlike you, I want them to be right, and other people can point out where I'm wrong. It can be brutal. Sometimes someone find a major flaw with some concept I was really enamored of. But you - you would never risk exposing something to criticism, because you know - criticism can hurt, and you try at all costs to avoid revealing anything about yourself.

You say nothing because you're fucking terrified of me. You know that I know what I'm talking about,m and you know I will rip holes in whatever your theory is wherever I can. Because that's what I invite people to do to my own ideas. because if they can't stand up to comments, then really, who gives a fuck? You can pretend to pass as enlightend here, I guess, but you know taht whatever it is you think you have dreamed up is nothing new or useful at all.

Hey, I get it. You can't take the heat. So stay the fuck out of the kitchen. Adults are talking.

pinback wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:36 pm I'm laughing at the "superior intellect".

Oooh, Star Trek jokes, now. Wow. <eyeroll>

You do realize you're nowhere near as funny as you imagine you are, right? Well, "pallie", it's me who is laughing at your inferior intellect. Mine is superior for many reasons, and one of those is that I'm intellectually capable and brave enough to put my shit out there, not hide it for fear of having my widdle feelings hurt.

Go ahead, throw one or two sentences back at me. It's all you're capable of. You couldn't defend an idea of yours in a million years, coward.

Go far, far away. We hate you like poison.

Finsternis: attacking a man in his own birthday thread is really, really low. It's even worse if the man just happens to be someone you've literally known for decades and considered a friend for at least part of that time. If Ben doesn't want to talk about something or have his ideas criticized, let's respect that in this thread of all places.

There are basically four universal rules of netiquette. (1) Don't attack someone in their own birthday thread. (2) Don't write your own comments within a quote box and especially not next to actual quoted material because it's confusing as hell and hard to read. (3) Never use the word "golfs" as a noun. (4) Don't type in all caps because that means you're shouting. Finsternis has broken the first three rules in two weeks. I'm not sure if he could actually break the fourth because he usually sounds like he's shouting and so he could reasonably start typing in all caps all the time if he wanted to do so. A literal murderer was once a regular poster here. He never shat on someone's birthday thread as far as I can remember and treated most forum users with way more respect than Finsternis shows even to his "friends." Is this really the person you want to be? Is this really the image of yourself you want to present to the world?

Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:56 pm

pinback wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:36 pm Any engagement with you is an invitation for you to belittle anyone else's thoughts with your own superior intellect.

Ah, so your new revelation is too weak to stand the forges of debate, eh?

No, we just don't want to deal with a condescending asshole with a superiority complex who thinks his shit don't stink.

Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:56 pm I work ... my opinions ... unlike you ... I'm wrong. I ... try at all costs to avoid revealing anything... say nothing ... fucking terrified... You know that I know ... you know ... I can't stand up to comments ... but you know taht whatever it is ... is nothing new or useful at all.

Excuse me as I sweep away the debris from working in a quote mine.

Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:56 pm Adults are talking.

Yes they are. You have not proven you have risen to that level yet.

Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:56 pm

pinback wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:36 pm I'm laughing at the "superior intellect".

me who is laughing at your inferior intellect. Mine is superior for many reasons, and one of those is that I'm intellectually capable

Not from here that I can see or the first thing your so-called superior intellect would realize is you don't get people to listen to you by insulting them. But you seem to be unable to learn that. Thus you are the one with the inferior intellect.

I'll offer you some advice which you won't follow: change your diet, swallow some pride, eat a little crow, and start over. Show, don't tell. Explain without condescension; give facts without condemnation, and stop acting like other people are garbage.

Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:56 pm coward.

Look who's talking. The person who acts like a bully is often using it as a cover to hide their own cowardice.

bryanb wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:30 pm Finsternis: attacking a man in his own birthday thread is really, really low.

Yeah, but calling someone a "total disaster" and "we hate you" and "you're like poison" is so nice!

bryanb wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:30 pm It's even worse if the man just happens to be someone you've literally known for decades and considered a friend for at least part of that time.

That's the thing - I considered him a friend. I don't think he ever felt the same way.

bryanb wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:30 pmThere are basically four universal rules of netiquette.

Kindly don't lecture me about netiquette. I've been on the net since 1985. I sent my first emails before the domain system even existed, and you had to know the name of every computer between you and the recipient to send email. I helped build the internet. I wrote the HTML to put the first images of the Constitution and Declaration of Independence on the web, back when there was only one browser. I helped establish the rules of netiquette in forum software that no one has used in 20 years.

bryanb wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:30 pm(2) Don't write your own comments within a quote box and especially not next to actual quoted material because it's confusing as hell and hard to read.

To you, perhaps. Many of us - including Paul, I note - find it the best, and perhaps only way to keep track of multiple complex topics within messages, and especially when many people are participating in the conversation.

bryanb wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:30 pmI'm not sure if he could actually break the fourth because he usually sounds like he's shouting and so he could reasonably start typing in all caps all the time if he wanted to do so.

I could, but I rarely do. Luckily, this forum software has more civilized methods of adding stress like underlining and italics.

bryanb wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:30 pmHe never shat on someone's birthday thread as far as I can remember

If Ben is offended about me insulting him on his birthday, perhaps her should stop insulting others on his birthday. I don't recall him ever giving a damn about his birthday, but maybe he has started in the intervening years.

bryanb wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:30 pmand treated most forum users with way more respect than Finsternis shows even to his "friends."

As I pointed out, Ben clearly does not want to be my friend, and I suspect he never really considered me a friend even though we some yuks together way back when.

bryanb wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:30 pmIs this really the person you want to be?

If you want to lecture me about netiquette, here's one basic rule you really need to learn: it's a really dumb idea to make assumptions about people's lives based on things they post. I - me, the person - am not "Finsternis". Finsternis has some aspects of me, of course. But they are still two very different things.

Do you act around your mom the same way you acts when you're out drinking with your buds? Which one is "you"? Can you see that people can act differently in different situations?

bryanb wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:30 pm Is this really the image of yourself you want to present to the world?

Who says it is? All you know about me is the image I present here. Don't make "Paul's Mistake" of assuming that anything beyond your experienbce is impossible.

And, wow - see that? You wrote more than two sentences, and it was a calm and reasonable message without insults. And that's what you received in return. Funny how that works. If only others here were so smart, and looked at their own behavior, showed some self-reflection, rather than just criticizing others.

Tdarcos wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:36 pm I'll offer you some advice which you won't follow: change your diet

Tdarcos wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:36 pmswallow some pride, eat a little crow, and start over.

I don't have any pride to swallow or crow to eat. Everytime I ask you or anyone else to give examples of the things you accuse me of, no one ever responds.

Will you please go away? I'm asking nicely, as a friend.

Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:01 pm If Ben is offended about me insulting him on his birthday, perhaps her should stop insulting others on his birthday. I don't recall him ever giving a damn about his birthday, but maybe he has started in the intervening years.

Yeah, I don't think he cares, but I care. You can post as many Ben bashing threads as you want and Robb allows, but this is explicitly a thread for Ben appreciation. Thanks, Ben!

Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:01 pm As I pointed out, Ben clearly does not want to be my friend, and I suspect he never really considered me a friend even though we some yuks together way back when.

I'm not sure that's true. He did ask Robb if you would be welcome to come back to the board which he didn't have to do. That sounds like a friend to me. I really don't think he had some master plan that involved you spending weeks engaging in endless and pointless flame wars with Paul and other users and would culminate in him trying to insult you off the board. Who would actually want that? Another thing to consider is that Ben has other friends here, like Paul. We're all admittedly hypocrites because we've all gotten into it with Paul in the past and haven't always been kind in the process, but we still don't want to see you treat our friend and board MVP so dismissively and disrespectfully.

Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:01 pm If you want to lecture me about netiquette, here's one basic rule you really need to learn: it's a really dumb idea to make assumptions about people's lives based on things they post. I - me, the person - am not "Finsternis". Finsternis has some aspects of me, of course. But they are still two very different things.

I'd say Finsternis is all you, even if he's a character or an art project. You're the one controlling the strings and choosing to post as you do. You may very well act differently online and offline...in fact, I'd say you'd HAVE to act differently offline just to keep your marriage and career going. That doesn't mean the online you isn't just as real as the offline you. It's all the same guy, isn't it? If you actually haven't been intellectually honest with us and have been posting stuff you don't really believe in just to get reactions out of people, that's a different story...you'd just be a garden variety troll in that case.

What I don't understand is what you get out of all the contention. Does you telling someone they're dumb and you're smart actually make you feel smart? Does that really work? Are you really just a particularly antisocial version of Stuart Smalley? When you want to engage in polite discussion you can be perfectly reasonable. You made a good post in my Microprose thread and you were actually supportive in AArdvark's Toonces thread. Inevitably, though, you drift back to the same angry and mocking baseline. If you were a true gadfly, you'd be trying to shock people into trying to think differently, but your anger and mockery tends to disrupt and end intelligent conversations rather than spark or encourage them.

pinback wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:01 am Will you please go away? I'm asking nicely, as a friend.

If you actually asked as a friend, I might consider it. But you can't.

bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pm I really don't think he had some master plan that involved you spending weeks engaging in endless and pointless flame wars with Paul and other users and would culminate in him trying to insult you off the board. Who would actually want that?

Meh, he probably didn't plan it that carefully, no. But neither did he do anything nice or "friendly" to make me feel welcome, either, like, say, post a simple introduction saying "this is my friend, say hi" because that would revel something about himself, which is verboten. I do think while he may not have specifically planned for this to happen, I think he expected it and did nothing to prevent it. I also think he is enjoying it.

bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pmWe're all admittedly hypocrites because we've all gotten into it with Paul in the past and haven't always been kind in the process

Yes, you have, and yes, you are all hypocrites for it. But I don't buy for one minute all the pious protestations that Paul is such a good friend. If he was, you wouldn't all be cheering him on and encouraging him to speed towards what will be a horrible, miserable death. Fuck, Jonesy bought him a giant bag of poison just to piss me off - some friend! Helping kill him just to make a point with someone else! I guess that, as he loses more limbs, his sight, and whatever eventually kills him, his last thoughts while he lies insensate and motionless in a hospital bed in a shitty hospital being badly cared for, his last thought will be "Thanks, Jonesy, for the candy!" So while you may all consider it a big joke, spare me the holier-than-thou "we love him" bullshit. Friends don't kill their friends.

bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pm

Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:01 pm If you want to lecture me about netiquette, here's one basic rule you really need to learn: it's a really dumb idea to make assumptions about people's lives based on things they post.

I'd say Finsternis is all you, even if he's a character or an art project.

So, you didn't even read what I wrote at all. I see.

You base this deep psychological profile of me based on.... what? Your deep personal knowledge of me? The endless hours we've spent hanging out? Do you even know my real first name, or would you have to ask Ben or Jonesy? Sorry if I laugh at your attempt at armchair psychology. Remote armchair psychology, even worse!

bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pmYou may very well act differently online and offline...in fact, I'd say you'd HAVE to act differently offline just to keep your marriage and career going.

In fact, I can even act different ways in different places online! I'm amazing that way!

bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pmThat doesn't mean the online you isn't just as real as the offline you.

I'm rolling my eyes. See above about amateur psychology. You literally don't know the first thing about me.

bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pmIt's all the same guy, isn't it?

Well, let's see - do you act the same way around your mom as around your best buds when you're out drinking? Do you act the same way around your co workers as with your girlfriend? Does anyone ever act exactly the same way at all times?

bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pmIf you actually haven't been intellectually honest with us and have been posting stuff you don't really believe in just to get reactions out of people, that's a different story...you'd just be a garden variety troll in that case.

I assure you that when I say things i don't truly believe, that will be obvious in context, assuming you are aware of various rhetorical devices such as sarcasm, hyperbole, etc.

bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pmWhat I don't understand is what you get out of all the contention.

One of the infinite number of things you don't know about me is that not only do I not seek conflict, I try to avoid it when possible. While Paul is wrong when he says that it is never a good way to convince someone, it is usually a better idea to start conversations without trying to create conflict.

bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pm Does you telling someone they're dumb and you're smart actually make you feel smart? Does that really work?

I already know I'm smart; I don't need anyone's validation for that. Or anything else.

bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pm When you want to engage in polite discussion you can be perfectly reasonable.

You probably won't believe it, but that is by far the greatest percentage of my online posts and persona. It's rare that I encounter someone like Paul who is so adamantly opposed to accept new ways of looking at things who is not a right-wing conservative and/or religious nutbag. But I have pet peeves like anyone else and it is possible, though difficult, to push my buttons, especially if I'm in a bad mood. Perhaps it all just got off on the wrong foot, I thought a nice philosophical conversation about the nature of mind and consciousness and fate might be a gentle start. Perhaps it would have worked out differently, perhaps not. Perhaps I was enraged by Paul because even though he isn't trained well in philosophy, he thinks he is.

I was disappointed by the fact that he is at least aware of some very basic concepts and might have been happy to have some constructive criticism by someone who knew more about it than him, but it didn't work out that way. He insisted that the only things that exist - that can exist - are things he is aware of, and that things could only possibly be the way he thought they were. Very, very bad signs for anyone who is trying to talk intelligently about philosophy. I tried to jar him into thinking more deeply, but he was a lot more concerned with defending his invalid points than considering any other perspectives. That irked me.

bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pm If you were a true gadfly, you'd be trying to shock people into trying to think differently, but your anger and mockery tends to disrupt and end intelligent conversations rather than spark or encourage them.

And you don't think mockery is a type of shock? Interesting.

Finsternis wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:49 am Yes, you have, and yes, you are all hypocrites for it. But I don't buy for one minute all the pious protestations that Paul is such a good friend. If he was, you wouldn't all be cheering him on and encouraging him to speed towards what will be a horrible, miserable death. Fuck, Jonesy bought him a giant bag of poison just to piss me off - some friend! Helping kill him just to make a point with someone else! I guess that, as he loses more limbs, his sight, and whatever eventually kills him, his last thoughts while he lies insensate and motionless in a hospital bed in a shitty hospital being badly cared for, his last thought will be "Thanks, Jonesy, for the candy!" So while you may all consider it a big joke, spare me the holier-than-thou "we love him" bullshit. Friends don't kill their friends.

That's a form of puritanism. Not everyone thinks preserving longevity and health are more important than pleasure. Casanova wrote, "The chief business of my life has always been to indulge my senses; I never knew anything of greater importance." Paul has reached a certain age and faces formidable health challenges. If enjoying a favorite candy makes the days go by easier, I don't begrudge him that pleasure one bit. Most importantly, it's his life to live as he sees fit and our job as friends to respect his right to choose for himself even if we might disagree with the choice. What good would it do to give him gifts he wouldn't use or appreciate?

Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:01 pm You base this deep psychological profile of me based on.... what? Your deep personal knowledge of me? The endless hours we've spent hanging out? Do you even know my real first name, or would you have to ask Ben or Jonesy? Sorry if I laugh at your attempt at armchair psychology. Remote armchair psychology, even worse!

I have resources at my disposal, Doug...vast resources. Underestimate me at your own peril. At any rate, there was zero psychological analysis in my post -- ZERO. All I said was you are indeed Finsternis, the guy who spends hours belittling and insulting people here. You wrote those posts. They emanate from you. They are a reflection of you. If you spent twenty hours a month grave-digging, we could call you a part-time gravedigger and you wouldn't be able to dispute that even if you weren't particularly proud of your job. You could be a great person in real life and everywhere else you post online, but that's beyond my purview. Is your argument that your deepest, innermost self (do you even believe such a thing exists?) is nothing at all like the character who engages in flame wars here? Well, perhaps. I've never disputed your potential complexity. I do dispute the idea that you can behave online (let's say online on Jolt Country if we have to be that specific) in any manner you choose without it altering your character to some extent. Certainly the good we don't see could more than outweigh the bad in the big picture...I hope it does in fact.

Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:01 pm Well, let's see - do you act the same way around your mom as around your best buds when you're out drinking? Do you act the same way around your co workers as with your girlfriend? Does anyone ever act exactly the same way at all times?

Context matters in human relationships to be sure. For instance, I can have a two-way conversation with my mom about the Great Depression but not video games, and, unlike my mom, my coworkers don't generally try to turn an ordinary everyday conversation into an attempt to save my soul. What I do aim to do in my life is to treat my mom, coworkers, girlfriends, and innocent bystanders with respect and honor. Do I always succeed? Certainly not. I often fail at it to be honest, but I still think it's a worthy goal to aim for. I don't keep anyone in my life to use as a punching bag -- not even an enemy or rival. From my perspective, that would be wrong.

Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:01 pm Perhaps it all just got off on the wrong foot, I thought a nice philosophical conversation about the nature of mind and consciousness and fate might be a gentle start. Perhaps it would have worked out differently, perhaps not.

I think that's right. If you hadn't let yourself get so annoyed and lose your temper, things wouldn't have gotten so out of hand. From my perspective, I saw Paul acting in a friendly manner and eagerly engaging in a philosophical discussion, something he is very fond of doing and which in a casual setting does not usually require any strict adherence to fundamental laws or rules. You obviously weren't on the same page as Paul and weren't willing to engage in a friendly back and forth. I feel like you both missed out on something as a result of your recalcitrance. Perhaps the whole board did.

bryanb wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:56 pm If you were a true gadfly, you'd be trying to shock people into trying to think differently, but your anger and mockery tends to disrupt and end intelligent conversations rather than spark or encourage them.

Finsternis wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:01 pm And you don't think mockery is a type of shock? Interesting.

It certainly can be, but not when you do it. Seriously, if anyone here has had their way of thinking completely shaken up by an encounter with Finsternis, let's hear it. If anyone has had their mind changed in any way about anything by a recent conversation with Finsternis, let's hear it. Is he being an effective gadfly?