Jolt Country

I'll start slow here, but please try to keep up, and ask any questions that come to mind. If any of you think about replying "Wrong." to this, not that I'm thinking of anyone in particular, save it until later, or better yet, keep it to yourself.

Let's start by investigating the difference between what I call relative truth and absolute truth.

Darth Vader cuts off Luke's arm, and goes into his whole speech. "With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy." Luke defiantly responds, "I’ll never join you!". Etc., etc. Almost all of us know how this goes. In the climactic moment, Darth Vader reveals his shattering, oft-misquoted secret. No. I am your father.

The relative truth here is that Darth Vader cut off Luke's arm after a super-sweet light saber battle, and then it was revealed that Darth Vader was Luke's dad the whole time.

The absolute truth is that there was only the screen.

When you speak of time and space and scientific theories, I generally agree with you. Of course there is time and space, you and me, and of course the speed of light is whatever we all decided was the right answer. My suggestion is that these are all relative truths. Vader is Luke's dad, and time/space/self are real things. What I am most interested in is the absolute truth, the "screen", if you will, on which these things appear.

What I hope to demonstrate to you, if I remember to continue this thread, is the nature of this absolute truth, and why I snarkily suggest in other threads that everything else is horseshit.

It is not hard to demonstrate, because it's clearly evident during every moment of your life, but you miss it. You're entranced by Darth Vader and Luke, forgetting that you are looking at a screen -- and in fact, there is only the screen.

You don't believe me yet, but you will.

There's just a screen? That screen is projecting images and colors combining together to show people, with sound to add their voices to it, speaking in languages new or old to the subjects ear, conveying feeling and emotion upon watching it. The screen that you speak of is the moment in quantum mechanics where a human observer breaks down the wave function. That screen is the same thing as the moment of inspection, where a human can observe something.

It's important to me that you know I responded "Wrong" to your biography before I read this post. Amazing!

raecoffey wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:14 pm There's just a screen? That screen is projecting images and colors combining together to show people, with sound to add their voices to it, speaking in languages new or old to the subjects ear, conveying feeling and emotion upon watching it. The screen that you speak of is the moment in quantum mechanics where a human observer breaks down the wave function. That screen is the same thing as the moment of inspection, where a human can observe something.

Please hold your applause until the end.

pinback wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:55 am I'll start slow here, but please try to keep up, and ask any questions that come to mind. If any of you think about replying "Wrong." to this, not that I'm thinking of anyone in particular, save it until later, or better yet, keep it to yourself.

Let's start by investigating the difference between what I call relative truth and absolute truth.

"Truth" is that which is concordant with reality.

pinback wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:55 am Darth Vader cuts off Luke's arm, and goes into his whole speech. "With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy." Luke defiantly responds, "I’ll never join you!". Etc., etc. Almost all of us know how this goes. In the climactic moment, Darth Vader reveals his shattering, oft-misquoted secret. No. I am your father.

This is a fictional story. George Lucas borrowed a lot from Joseph Campbell's concept of the hero's journey. If you want to understand more about myths, legends, and how stories relate to them, try viewing Bill Moyers' interviews of Campbell or Campbell's books on the subject of mythology.

pinback wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:55 am The relative truth here is that Darth Vader cut off Luke's arm after a super-sweet light saber battle, and then it was revealed that Darth Vader was Luke's dad the whole time.

The absolute truth is that there was only the screen.

If you want to be pedantic about it, there was also the audio track. But human beings - and I suspect other animals - have persistence of vision. The projector is showing a still image for 1/30 of a second, 30 times a second. That creates a story separate from the physical means to carry it. A book is a bunch of paper with ink spots on it. The ink spots form characters that have words that make sentences based on consensus as to what those symbols, individually or in groups, as words, or sentences, mean.

We tend to give much more credence to the message than to the underlying means used to convey it.

pinback wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:55 amand of course the speed of light is whatever we all decided was the right answer. My suggestion is that these are all relative truths.

This is where you do have it wrong. Physical constants are not decided by consensus; mathematics dictate that some results, to be accurate, must be of certain values and no others.

If you have a floor, to cover it with a carpet requires a certain number of feet times the width of the roll. Anything else will either be too much or too little.

If you have a manhole in the street, the manhole must be of a size (area) of exactly pi x the radius (distance from edge to center, or 1/2 of the longest distance across (diameter)) x itself, expressed as a= pi x r ^2. If it's more, it won't fit into the hole; if it's less, it will fall in.

pinback wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:55 am What I hope to demonstrate to you, if I remember to continue this thread, is the nature of this absolute truth, and why I snarkily suggest in other threads that everything else is horseshit.

Wrong. Only the excrement of horses is horseshit. As you say, that is an absolute truth. Other things may be errors, or lies, or other things, but only horse excrement can be horseshit.

pinback wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:55 am You don't believe me yet, but you will.

Even if you are correct about something, or you can show someone that they are wrong about its opposite, does not necessarily mean you can convince them of your idea.

Aron Ra points out how he'd be showing people how the theory of evolution is correct, and they'd stop listening, because they knew this was a trick of the devil, because what he was saying was making sense.

There are religious organizations that will have a "statement of faith" on their website, that says that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, an no fact, from nay source whatsoever, can be true or accepted if it disagrees with the Bible.

"It is extremely difficult to convince someone that something they believe in is wrong when his livelihood is dependent on believing it."

Alright, we're done here.

When you say dimensionless are you talking about physical reality?

Like beyond flatland and beyond
being reduced to a point?

Are you questioning whether or not
something is there?

I would like to think not, but
On October 23rd 2022 I was dying
In the ICU at RGH,

And I was going somewhere dark,
The abyss maybe.

It was peaceful there and
In this specific instance

I was still concious of it
And I felt ok.

Perhaps that is what is in the space
Between dreams and death.

Let's move on.

Wrong

Bwahaha! There should be some sort of Marijuana breathalyzer test that I have to pass before being allowed to post! ROFL! I'm pretty sure that the breathalyzer test might come in handy to test for the ability to operate automobiles and heavy machinery! You've heard it here first folks.

Dammit! I wsnt to hear the rest!

...maybe next week.

I would be more irritated by this but the two people who instantly destroyed this thread are the two people least able to understand that they did so. I'd no sooner blame them than blame a ball for rolling downhill.

Or maybe it DID belong in the monologue base, I just misunderstood whose monologue it was.

I did ok, right?

Um... least able to understand... ?

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:19 pm I did ok, right?

C+

pinback wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:55 am When you speak of time and space and scientific theories, I generally agree with you. Of course there is time and space, you and me, and of course the speed of light is whatever we all decided was the right answer. My suggestion is that these are all relative truths. Vader is Luke's dad, and time/space/self are real things. What I am most interested in is the absolute truth, the "screen", if you will, on which these things appear.

Sounds like you could be a fan of the "holographic principle", popularized by Leonard Suskind:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8E7NmPRDkI

Basically, time and space are emergent phenomena, which is the relative truth. The absolute truth would be that space and time are the results of quantum entanglement on a two-dimensional surface. The screen. We can never perceive that screen, because we ourselves are part of the emergent spacetime.

However, I don't think that something is necessarily physically correct just because the math checks out.

I have no idea what any of that means and it has nothing to do with anything I was going to talk about, but fuck it.

RealNC wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:34 am

pinback wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:55 am When you speak of time and space and scientific theories, I generally agree with you. Of course there is time and space, you and me, and of course the speed of light is whatever we all decided was the right answer. My suggestion is that these are all relative truths. Vader is Luke's dad, and time/space/self are real things. What I am most interested in is the absolute truth, the "screen", if you will, on which these things appear.

Sounds like you could be a fan of the "holographic principle", popularized by Leonard Suskind:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8E7NmPRDkI

Basically, time and space are emergent phenomena, which is the relative truth. The absolute truth would be that space and time are the results of quantum entanglement on a two-dimensional surface. The screen. We can never perceive that screen, because we ourselves are part of the emergent spacetime.

However, I don't think that something is necessarily physically correct just because the math checks out.

I've read of quantum entanglement a bit and the phenomena definitely captured my attention. Your definition of the screen and absolute truth made the most sense to me than the mere philosophy of it all. Once you break it down to the physics and the math of it, I'm all set.

pinback wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:13 amAlright, we're done here.

raecoffey wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:20 amWhen you say dimensionless are you talking about physical reality? ... Perhaps that is what is in the space Between dreams and death.

pinback wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:54 amLet's move on.

raecoffey wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:42 pmBwahaha! There should be some sort of Marijuana breathalyzer test

A urine test will work for both blood alcohol level and presence of marijuana, but I don't think it can tell MJ intoxication level nor how recent MJ use was. It may, but I don't know for sure.

AArdvark wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:49 pmDammit! I wsnt to hear the rest!

pinback wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:45 pm...maybe next week.

pinback wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:54 pmI would be more irritated by this but the two people who instantly destroyed this thread

raecoffey wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:13 pm Um... least able to understand... ?

Rae, this is Ben "Pinback" Parish's standard modus operandi when he proposes some half-baked hypothesis, then realizes that someone - or in this case, two people - are more familiar with the subject, or better able to call him on his bull shit. Or, if we want to use "absolute truth" Ben shit.

In short terms, if I understand it, he has a master's degree in passive-aggressive.

He just doesn't like being the recipient of one-upmanship, or, in our case, two-upmanship.