On the Nature of Sleep, Dreams, and Unconsiousness

[Tdarcos]

I have done some consideration on sleep and dreaming. I have an idea about the nature of dreaming and how it works.
As someone is tired, they become unconscious as part of falling asleep. This serves a number of important goals:
* The person stops seeing or hearing what's around them in an attempt to insulate them from being woken out of sleep. Same for general sense impressions so that things like being in pain does not prevent sleep.
* The conscious mind is disconnected from control of the limbs to prevent injury due to unintended movements.
The process of being unconscious is a setup exercise to prepare for REM sleep. Long term memory is being prepared for storage of memories.

My thoughts are that memory used during the day is "fast memory" easily accessed, quick to access, but not a lot is available, the way microprocessors have fast cache memory, but it is very limited. Important memories have to be transferred to long-term memory, which is slower, but there's more of it.

Now, to copy memories out of short-term memory to long-term - or to trim "unimportant memories" that aren't backed up, such as when sitting at a desk for hours on end, or, when having "highway hypnosis" when you come to while driving on the freeway for hours and realize you can't remember the last 50 miles, having driven on autopilot - requires accessing that memory, I presume you can't both use the memory and access it at the same time (like how you can't use a kitchen floor while washing or waxing it), and can't access short-term memory while unconscious, so, the mind creates a whole synthetic world to keep part of one's conscious "operating system" busy while short-term memory is backed up. So it creates REM sleep to keep the conscious mind busy while this is happening.

So I think REM sleep is to keep the conscious mind busy while it backs up short-term memory to long term.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

What is the purpose of non REM sleep then?

[pinback]

I have done some consideration on sleep and dreaming. I have an idea about the nature of dreaming and how it works.
As someone is tired, they become unconscious as part of falling asleep. This serves a number of important goals:
* The person stops seeing or hearing what's around them in an attempt to insulate them from being woken out of sleep. Same for general sense impressions so that things like being in pain does not prevent sleep.
* The conscious mind is disconnected from control of the limbs to prevent injury due to unintended movements.
The process of being unconscious is a setup exercise to prepare for REM sleep. Long term memory is being prepared for storage of memories.

My thoughts are that memory used during the day is "fast memory" easily accessed, quick to access, but not a lot is available, the way microprocessors have fast cache memory, but it is very limited. Important memories have to be transferred to long-term memory, which is slower, but there's more of it.

Now, to copy memories out of short-term memory to long-term - or to trim "unimportant memories" that aren't backed up, such as when sitting at a desk for hours on end, or, when having "highway hypnosis" when you come to while driving on the freeway for hours and realize you can't remember the last 50 miles, having driven on autopilot - requires accessing that memory, I presume you can't both use the memory and access it at the same time (like how you can't use a kitchen floor while washing or waxing it), and can't access short-term memory while unconscious, so, the mind creates a whole synthetic world to keep part of one's conscious "operating system" busy while short-term memory is backed up. So it creates REM sleep to keep the conscious mind busy while this is happening.

So I think REM sleep is to keep the conscious mind busy while it backs up short-term memory to long term.

Wrong.

[Jizaboz]

Now this is a very interesting topic for me as you may remember from our fone conversations, Paul. Many people around our age I try to fire up a conversation about dreaming with their answer is usually simply: "I don't remember my dreams." As a kid I had many horrible and vivid nightmares I can still remember as well as my parents telling me about me sleepwalking down stairs and out doors, etc. I think a lot of it may have been health related, at least until I had my tonsils removed when I was almost 8. I doubt any of you own "Dreams" for PS4, but I created one of my childhood nightmares in that. However, I can link to the Twitter video for spoilers!



Anyway, shortly after that age I progressed from "vivid" dreaming to "lucid" dreaming. Not only would I remember every damn experience, I taught myself how to wake myself up once I realized it was a dream that was about to turn bad. I would dream I was blinking as fast as I could.. and then in real life I would be blinking and that would of course pull me out of it.

As I got older I found this to be very exhausting at times. I would go to sleep for like 8 hours but only feel like I'd been asleep for 3-4 because I'd been living a dream for what felt like a day and a half. I can wake up and draw you maps, illustrate areas, describe people both familiar and not, on and on for hours after waking up from certain dreams. Especially the ones where I keep going back to the same areas. Drugs just simply can't compare to this experience, which is why I never tried DMT or any of that other extreme hippy shit.

Sometimes though yeah.. I'll just have a "dumb dream". Those seem to be the best for peaceful sleep. This morning for example I recalled a dream about being at a poolside and staring at my toenails as someone else from a lawn chair glanced at them. Then the toenail transformed into a broken one, all bloodied up like I accidently did to myself years ago.

At any rate, despite all of the side effects that come with this it does help me come up with solutions to every day things and work-related things, as well as many video game ideas. Both Duck Slide Range and my new game were visions from dreams. While I've yet to make much money yet going the creative over the past year and a half or so, it does feel like satisfying work to make things you vividly see in a dream become a reality not only yourself but for others.

I like the way ancient Egypt supposedly thought of the self/soul worked. I believe when we dream some of us are becoming the "Akh" of ourselves. When the "Ka" is gone, that is all that is left. I actually consider this much the way you are consider what is "ROM" in this case. Everyone knows your RAM is wiped when you flatline ;)

What is the purpose of non REM sleep then?

I dunno about you but I'd rather go to sleep with the TV on than listening to most REM songs.

Wrong.

<Ancient Aliens dude voice>

"But who's to sayyy?"

[Tdarcos]

What is the purpose of non REM sleep then?

I'm glad you asked and I realize I missed it. I presume part of it is preparation for REM sleep, and possibly for the brain to do self repair.

[Tdarcos]

I have done some consideration on sleep and dreaming.

Wrong.

As your claim has nothing to support it, it is itself rejected as itself being unsupported by evidence.

"Regular claims require regular evidence, Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Claims made without evidence may be dismissed without evidence."

I have made claims as to my hypothesis of the reasons for sleep and dreams including my reasoning. I have thus offered evidence for why I have my opinion. You have given no evidence (reasons) for why you claim I am wrong.

You have made a claim completely lacking evidence to support your conclusion; therefore it is summarily dismissed.

Have a good day, and don't let the screen door hit you on the ass on the way out.

[Tdarcos]

Now this is a very interesting topic for me as you may remember from our fone conversations, Paul. Many people around our age I try to fire up a conversation about dreaming with their answer is usually simply: "I don't remember my dreams."

Not all of them, but I do remember some of them.

I progressed from "vivid" dreaming to "lucid" dreaming. Not only would I remember every damn experience, I taught myself how to wake myself up once I realized it was a dream

I may have had a lucid dream where I knew I was, but if so I haven't had one like that for years, if not decades. I'd love to be able to do Inception-style dream changes.

I have had a few dreams that really have been memorable, often because I wrote them down, even if I never kept the paper.

[raecoffey]

All I know is that for 8 years after Noel's death I dreamed of her every night. Now I just dream that I'm in a relationship with Adam, post murders, with his dog, George, which he horriby abused in life. Noel loved that dog, she would call me freaking out that daddy was beating her doggy badly again! When they were killed, Marcie found George 7 days later, in a crate in a house that Adam abandoned. She took him and tried to give him a life but he became aggressive, started biting people, and was put down. RIP George. Atleast I'll see you in my dreams.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

[Flack]

I came here to post about a dream I had about ordering a comically large hot dog but the abused/dead dog story took the wind out of my sails so maybe I'll hang on to it for a few days.

[Jizaboz]

I like that track. Reminds me of a dream I had years ago where I was standing in the ruins of some church or other stone building. In the distance I could see the sun rising, but I was focused on water dripping down the stone wall arch in front of me.

Damnit, now I want to hear about the huge hot dog lol

[raecoffey]

I came here to post about a dream I had about ordering a comically large hot dog but the abused/dead dog story took the wind out of my sails so maybe I'll hang on to it for a few days.

99% of the population would care more the abused dog part of the story than Jackstraws murdered children.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

All I know is that for 8 years after Noel's death I dreamed of her every night. Now I just dream that I'm in a relationship with Adam, post murders, with his dog, George, which he horriby abused in life. Noel loved that dog, she would call me freaking out that daddy was beating her doggy badly again! When they were killed, Marcie found George 7 days later, in a crate in a house that Adam abandoned. She took him and tried to give him a life but he became aggressive, started biting people, and was put down. RIP George. Atleast I'll see you in my dreams.

This is awful, of course. I feel sorry for George. But wait, did Adam have a house that he could abandon? Where was he living?

[raecoffey]

All I know is that for 8 years after Noel's death I dreamed of her every night. Now I just dream that I'm in a relationship with Adam, post murders, with his dog, George, which he horriby abused in life. Noel loved that dog, she would call me freaking out that daddy was beating her doggy badly again! When they were killed, Marcie found George 7 days later, in a crate in a house that Adam abandoned. She took him and tried to give him a life but he became aggressive, started biting people, and was put down. RIP George. Atleast I'll see you in my dreams.

This is awful, of course. I feel sorry for George. But wait, did Adam have a house that he could abandon? Where was he living?

He was living in-between his house which he shared with Marcie (mia and Marcie lived at Marcie moms house for 6 Mos and Noel had been with me for 3)
And his family's canandaigua lake house.