The Real Time Strategy Files

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

BenMustard: Hey if I come out there can we form a BAND?
IceCreamJonsey: Yeah. I can play instruments! We need a good name, though.
IceCreamJonsey: Also: my brother can play drums!
IceCreamJonsey: You're better at keyboard than I am, though.
BenMustard: How about: "Jolt Country".
IceCreamJonsey: How about "Mustard"?
BenMustard: Hm.
IceCreamJonsey: How about "THE SENTINEL"
IceCreamJonsey: Or "BEDLAM"
BenMustard: How about "Furion Stormrage"?
IceCreamJonsey: Hm.


BenMustard: Speaking of that, I ordered the WC2 Battle Chest yesterday.
IceCreamJonsey: Excellent!
IceCreamJonsey: Did you get the green WC2 expansions disc with it? Cos I have that, too.
IceCreamJonsey: If they are not giving it to you.
BenMustard: GREEN? I dunno, I get whatever comes with the BattleChest.
IceCreamJonsey: Ooohh, dear.
IceCreamJonsey: Oh, noes.
IceCreamJonsey: You're not... oohhhh, no. This ain't good.
BenMustard: ??
IceCreamJonsey: Lemme get the name of it. One sec.

IceCreamJonsey: The "Warcraft II Expansion Set."

IceCreamJonsey: It's green.

BenMustard: I don't know what COLOR it is. BattleChest comes with the original and the expansion,l though.
BenMustard: PLUS THE PRIMA STRATEGY GUIDE, which I will toss into the dumpster as soon as I have my hands on it.
IceCreamJonsey: Okay. That's good.
IceCreamJonsey: I'd feel terrible if you didn't get the whole WC2 experience.


IceCreamJonsey: It's a really good game, superior to WC3 in every way.
BenMustard: But I also bought Frozen Throne with it, so it might be a while.
IceCreamJonsey: Ah!
BenMustard: Oh, shut up. You don't know nothin' about nothin'.
IceCreamJonsey: I know RTS, bitchsnatch.
IceCreamJonsey: My LIFE is one big real-time strategy game.
BenMustard: You would know WC3 from a cheese sandwich.
IceCreamJonsey: ... Huh?
BenMustard: Don't play dumb with me, pal.
IceCreamJonsey: I would know WC3 from a cheese sandwich, yes.
BenMustard: Ah! I had no idea.


BenMustard: Why don't we play some, then?
IceCreamJonsey: Some WC3? Or some WC2?
BenMustard: WC3, I don't have 2 yet.
IceCreamJonsey: I don't have a legal copy of WC3. =(
BenMustard: Well, use your illegal copy!

BenMustard: You honestly find WC2 to be superior to WC3? This is shocking. I voraciously await Amazon's delivery of the product.
IceCreamJonsey: Yeah. I knew where I stood with WC2. On the side of light!

BenMustard: Did you finish the single player campaign? (DONT TELL ME HOW IT ENDS IF SO)
IceCreamJonsey: No.
IceCreamJonsey: I got close, but it got to be "too good" and it joined the ranks of X-COM and Knight Orc (games so good I don't want to finish them).
IceCreamJonsey: Here's how it ends: you have to build a bunch of shit and kill a bunch of guys.
BenMustard: Not WC2.
BenMustard: WC3.
IceCreamJonsey: Oh! No, I didn't get off the first campaign.
BenMustard: So you admit you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
IceCreamJonsey: I liked WC2 better than WC3.

IceCreamJonsey: HOW CAN IT BE FUCKING BULLSHIT TO STATE A PREFERENCE?
BenMustard: "What do you like better, hamburgers or cheeseburgers?" "Oh, definitely hamburgers." "Have you had a cheeseburger?" "Well, no."
IceCreamJonsey: Oh, hey, how did you get warned?
IceCreamJonsey: MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE ALLERGIC TO GOOD GAMES
BenMustard: You been hangin' out with Worm too much.


IceCreamJonsey: If WC3 was a decent game, I would have played past the first campaign.
IceCreamJonsey: It's not!
IceCreamJonsey: Hey, get a load of this shit -- Postal 2 is not a bad game because I didn't finish the last half of the last level!
IceCreamJonsey: That's you!
IceCreamJonsey: OK, this is you
IceCreamJonsey: this is you, ready?
IceCreamJonsey: Ready?
IceCreamJonsey: This is you:
IceCreamJonsey: BLALARH BLLA CURRY WARCRAFT THREE IS BETTER THAN TWO BBRLALAH RELAXER ABLAAH CURRY TIGER WOODS

BenMustard: Good heavens.

IceCreamJonsey: BECAUSE BBRRAH BRHRRR I HAVEN'T PLAYED TWO YET GET ME SOME INDIAN SPICES
BenMustard: You're a raving lunatic.
IceCreamJonsey: BBRRGA RAVING JEFFERRRHRGOOO I LIKES THE WARCRAFTS IN THIS ORDER: 3, 1, 2, EXAPANS--- WARCTRRAFTCAST2004!!!!
BenMustard: What is the matter with you?
IceCreamJonsey: OK, here is how you like the Warcrafts
IceCreamJonsey: 1) Warcraft 3
IceCreamJonsey: 2) Warcraft 1
IceCreamJonsey: 3) Myth 1
IceCreamJonsey: 4) Myth ii
IceCreamJonsey: 5) Myth iii: THE WOLF AGE
IceCreamJonsey: 6) Command and Conquer: THE WOLF AGE
IceCreamJonsey: 7) The Wolf Age: The Wolf Age III
IceCreamJonsey: 8) Warcraft II *
IceCreamJonsey: * Not really
IceCreamJonsey: 9) ZPC (NOT EVEN A REAL TIME STRESATGY GAME)
IceCreamJonsey: 10) DOOM
BenMustard: Everything alright on the homefront?
IceCreamJonsey: 11) Zorek IIV
IceCreamJonsey: 12) Turbo Duo Classics PResents: Snatcher
IceCreamJonsey: 13 Snatcher II: Electric Boogalow
IceCreamJonsey: 14) Snatcher III: The Search for Snatch
IceCreamJonsey: 15) Castlevania: Symphony of Warcraft II Sucks Though I Haven't Played It ULTRA
IceCreamJonsey: 16) Warcraft II: the 350 Extra Levels*
IceCreamJonsey: * Not really
IceCreamJonsey: 17) Banzai Buggg
BenMustard: That's for kids.
IceCreamJonsey: 18) Bubble Bobble II: The Wrath of Electric Boogalow
IceCreamJonsey: 19) Buygalow Boonga-Boonga
IceCreamJonsey: 20) Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Expansion
BenMustard: I'm just going to leave this on. Send me an email when you're done.
IceCreamJonsey: 21) TIME-LIFE Presents: How To Draw Super Heroes and Super Villians
IceCreamJonsey: 22) ANAL FISTING
IceCreamJonsey: 23) Spy Hunter
IceCreamJonsey: 24) Spy Hunter II: The Frozen Throne
IceCreamJonsey: 25) Who is That Big Bald Fagroit on Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun, I Think His Name is Kane
IceCreamJonsey: 26) Who is That Big Bald Fagroit on Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun, I Think His Name is Kane Expansion
IceCreamJonsey: Who is That Big Bald Fagroit on Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun, I Think His Name is Kane II
IceCreamJonsey: Shit, that was #27
IceCreamJonsey: 28) Warcraft II *
IceCreamJonsey: * Not really
IceCreamJonsey: 29) Apartment F209
IceCreamJonsey: 30) Apartment F209 II: Apartment L201
IceCreamJonsey: 31) Who is That Big Bald Fagroit on Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun, I Think His Name is Kane at Apartment F209
IceCreamJonsey: 32) Warcraft II
BenMustard: Really?
IceCreamJonsey: Yreh
IceCreamJonsey: wait no
IceCreamJonsey: 33) Super NES Return of the Jedi, which is sort of a real time strategy game, in so much as you decide between allocating your time playing it and allocating your time not growing pimples and fat cells
IceCreamJonsey: 34) Z (this is actually a rts game, but with DROIDS and they drink beer; swear)*
IceCreamJonsey: * Really
IceCreamJonsey: 35) This seems like a good place for WC2, wouldn't you say?
IceCreamJonsey: The 35th best Real Time Strategy Game of ALl toime?
BenMustard: I hope you're enjoying this as much as I have! Which would be: not at all.
IceCreamJonsey: I think so, anyway.

BenMustard: WC2 might be the greatest thing in history, which is why I bought it.
IceCreamJonsey: Oh. Yeah. It's better than WC3.
BenMustard: Nothing is better than WC3.

[pinback]

BenMustard: It's a good thing I spent a day or two there, so I know for a fact that you two are not this annoying in real life.
VitriolaX: Well, he is, I'm just scared of you.

[pinback]

If anyone's curious (and Elune help you if you are), this is conversation that has been going on between ICJ and myself for the past week or two:

ICJ: Hey, WC2 is a lot better than WC3.
Pin: Really? That's hard to believe, since WC3 is so fabulous.
ICJ: WC2 is a lot better.
Pin: Huh. Okay, I'll go ahead and buy it, on your recommendation.
Pin: [logs into Amazon, places order].
Pin: Okay, I've ordered it, and am greatly looking forward to checking it out!
ICJ: [see above insane rant]
Pin: Well, can you explain to me what is so much better about WC2 than WC3? Or how it got so much worse between the first and second sequels?
ICJ: It just IS. It just IS.
Pin: But, I mean, specifically?
ICJ: WC3 is the same damn game!
Pin: Well, okay, but it's got much better graphics and sound and stuff. What's the part about it that's "worse"?
ICJ: It just IS!! [begins frothing rabidly about the orifices]
Pin: Okay, but wha--
ICJ: URRRRRGH!!!! [hits "Warn" on AIM several times]
Pin: What-EVER, d00d.
ICJ: RRRrAarrararghghhH!!!!!

[Debaser]

3 is sooo much better than 2. 1 would be better than 2 if it didn't have such a fucking primitive interface and everything didn't happen so fucking slowly. With 2 it's like all the same damn units all the same damn time.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

3 is sooo much better than 2.

I can get you some crazy pills.


Let me know if you'd like some pills for that.

EDIT: to stop being so crazy

[Debaser]

You are operating under several interelated but distinct delusions. The most obvious of these delusions is that Warcraft 3 is better than Warcraft 2. While it's obvious that you dislike Warcraft 3, I think it's safe to assume that you think Warcraft 2 is a good game. This, too, is a fundamentally flawed belief, much like a belief in fairies, or aliens, or [three point switch gag].

Now, I understand there is a line of thinking out there that if one game comes out that pioneers a concept and then another, more polished but otherwise very similair game comes out later that the former game is still the better one. Even a moment's rational thought can expose this as a fallacy, but I believe your problems run deeper still.

Warcraft 2 did not pioneer the concept of Real Time Strategy. I think, on some level, you must realize this. I mean it is called Warcraft 2 after all. The reason for it's enduring and peculiar popularity is that it just happens to be the first RTS to come out with an intuitive, useable interface. In other words, it's very similair to Warcraft 1, Dune 2, and probably some other, lesser known early RTS, only more polished.

And what's worse, Warcraft 2 is in all meaningful ways (other than interface and presentation) a step backwards from its forefathers. Dune 2 had three different "sides", all of which had unique strengths and weaknesses. The evil red guys (I know longer remember the names of the different Houses) were strong but slow juggernauts. The evil green guys had lots of weaker, but cheaper and fast moving units. The good blue guys were essentially balanced between the two other sides. The original Warcraft had very few units (and the units on both the Orc and Human sides were basically identical), but each and every buildable unit was important. Knights and Raiders were simply too expensive and slow to build to rely on them exclusively, so you needed footmen/grunts and archers/spearmen and Demons/Water Elementals and everything else to round out your army.

By contrast Warcraft 2 had two sides with essentially identical units, most of which became obsolete once you gained access to Paladins/Ogre Mages and Dragons/Lightning Farting Bird Things. Except in water maps where maybe you wanted to use boats. Which is a fine example of addition by subtraction's uglier, skankier kid sister, subtraction by addition. Because harvesting resources, building your base, and then trying to move an army of units with vastly different movement speeds and poor pathfinding towards the enemy base is a tedious enough endeavor without having to add logistics into the equation.

Even Warcraft 2's contemporary Command & Conquer knew enough to create unique units for either side. It had a polished interace and a better storyline but seems to be the less well-remembered RTS. Either because the two sides were incredibly unbalanced in favor of GDI or because they neglected to include a sassy female elf. Either/or. But back to the main point.

Getting back to subtraction by addition, we have "hero" units who are a bit stronger than regular units but can never be used because when they die you lose the mission. Wonderful.

Now, let's compare this to Warcraft 3. Better graphics and sound, more polished interface. Better storyline. Three sides, each with their own unique units. No boats or transport units of any kind. Resurrectable heroes. This is quite clearly the superior game. Someone who'd never played a single RTS in their life could read an FAQ for each game and arrive at that conclusion. And you're disagreeing based on having played Warcraft 3's opening tutorial mission and not particularly like it?

[pinback]

The most obvious of these delusions is that Warcraft 3 is better than Warcraft 2.

I think you meant it the other way.

Now, let's compare this to Warcraft 3. ... Three sides, each with their own unique units.

Well, four.

No boats or transport units of any kind.

Well, it does have transport units.

And you're disagreeing based on having played Warcraft 3's opening tutorial mission and not particularly like it?

As you are the only person on this BBS on "my side", I feel bad questioning your own background, but the fact that you got the number of races and the existence of transports units wrong, I have to wonder how much you've played WC3.

And let me just take this opportunity to explain what "my side" is. My side is NOT that WC3 is better than WC2, or that WC2 is bad, or anything. How could it be? I've never even played a second of WC2. "My side" is that WC3 is a fantastic game -- a fantastic piece of software -- NAY, a fantastic WORK OF ART -- in nearly every respect.

"My side" is also that the original Warcraft SUCKS, and I base this now on playing the first TWO tutorial missions. What is this, an RTS game, or friggin' DALEKS?!?!?!?!

[Debaser]

The most obvious of these delusions is that Warcraft 3 is better than Warcraft 2.

I think you meant it the other way.

Clearly. I really should proofreed my longer posts.

Now, let's compare this to Warcraft 3. ... Three sides, each with their own unique units.

Well, four.

Right. Forgot those silly Elf guys.

No boats or transport units of any kind.

Well, it does have transport units.

Who has transport units? I don't remember any. Maybe they come later in the game than I got, or maybe it's some sort of mental block.

As you are the only person on this BBS on "my side", I feel bad questioning your own background, but the fact that you got the number of races and the existence of transports units wrong, I have to wonder how much you've played WC3.

Pretty much up through the Undead campaign. I think I got stuck on the same mission that originally threw you: that being the one where the necromancer guy's trying to summon that demon and you have to defend him for like 30 minutes while he does so. I played to there, got stuck. That was a crappy mission. Started over. Got stuck in the same place. Got bored. Quit playing.

And let me just take this opportunity to explain what "my side" is. My side is NOT that WC3 is better than WC2, or that WC2 is bad, or anything. How could it be? I've never even played a second of WC2. "My side" is that WC3 is a fantastic game -- a fantastic piece of software -- NAY, a fantastic WORK OF ART -- in nearly every respect.

In that case, we are fundamentally opposed and you can question my background all you want. Warcraft 3 would fall into the category of "pretty good". Of course, despite the ridiculous number of RTS's I've played in my life, I don't even especially like the genre (it really only exists for multiplayer play, which I never use), so maybe I'm just biased. Then again Starcraft had cooler single player missions (at least of those I've played [which is approximately half for both games]) and more interesting units, so it's hard to say that WC3 is even the best game of its type.

[pinback]

Right. Forgot those silly Elf guys.

Women. Silly Elf women. (And, the coolest -- and hottest! -- race in the game, in this author's opinion.)

Who has transport units?

Goblins. You can buy Goblin Zeppelins. FUN PINBACK FAX: Goblin Zeppelins are my favorite unit in the game, because of the sounds they make. "AAAAAAAGHGHhghghGHHH!!!" is the funniest noise in any video game ever.

Pretty much up through the Undead campaign. I think I got stuck on the same mission that originally threw you: that being the one where the necromancer guy's trying to summon that demon and you have to defend him for like 30 minutes while he does so. I played to there, got stuck. That was a crappy mission. Started over. Got stuck in the same place. Got bored. Quit playing.

Exactly what happened to me. That's a very, VERY difficult mission.

approximately half for both games]) and more interesting units, so it's hard to say that WC3 is even the best game of its type.

No accounting for taste. So, I guess you are NOT on "my side". And as with anything else, you're either with me...

...or I'm against you.

[Medieval Peasant]

Women. Silly Elf women. (And, the coolest -- and hottest! -- race in the game, in this author's opinion.)

)-:

[Green Skinned Pig-Man]

Women. Silly Elf women. (And, the coolest -- and hottest! -- race in the game, in this author's opinion.)

)-:

[Decaying Corpse]

Women. Silly Elf women. (And, the coolest -- and hottest! -- race in the game, in this author's opinion.)

)-:

[pinback]

)-:

Aw, c'mon babies, don't be like that! What we had is real! You know you'll always be special to me!

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

While it's obvious that you dislike Warcraft 3, I think it's safe to assume that you think Warcraft 2 is a good game. This, too, is a fundamentally flawed belief, much like a belief in fairies, or aliens, or [three point switch gag].

Hi! I'm a fish. A water-breathin' circus pogey of the highest pedigree. I've come up for air! I came up for air, and saw THIS strewn about on land.

Why, it's enough to spoil your continental breakfast. It's enough to write off land dwellers as Not Worth The Bother. It's enough to proclaim this "land lover" thing as a reprehensible offshoot of evolution that will certainly cause only malaise and suffering for every creature on the planet.

At least, it will when statements like "Warcraft II isn't a good game" is made by its denizens.

Now, I understand there is a line of thinking out there that if one game comes out that pioneers a concept and then another, more polished but otherwise very similair game comes out later that the former game is still the better one.

Yes! This is true. This must be true, because otherwise human beings would not value innovation and our lives would be cruel pantomimes of that of the brown-skinned prey people in H.G. Wells' feature film from a couple years back "The Time Machine."

Not for my race, Debaser! (I'm no longer a pogey, any more, by the way.)

However, sometimes the second or third thing to come out really is a better game. Doom wasn't the original first person shooter, but it's better than Wolfenstein 3D. Zork is better than Advent. Boon-ga Boon-ga is better than a real-life rectal exam. It happens, every once in a while.

Even a moment's rational thought can expose this as a fallacy, but I believe your problems run deeper still.

A... fallacy!?

"I disagree, your excellency." -- Trade Advisor, Civ II

I disagree, Debaser. I disagree, because it's easy for someone to take a pre-established concept and say, "You should do this with it." Anyone can do that. I'll do it. Watch me. OK? Watch me do it... seriously! Come on.

Ahem.

"They should have put a grainy oldtime movie picture filter on Resident Evil." -- Robb Sherwin

Ah-ha! I did it! And, as it turns out, they're gonna do just that for one of the new Silent Hill games. Congrats. (Silent Hill, the original one, isn't as good as Resident Evil, the original one, by the way, even though it really is. It just isn't.)

... I fear that my point may have been lost in all this. I am just saying that I prize innovation. Usually.

Warcraft 2 did not pioneer the concept of Real Time Strategy.

True! I would say that it made outstanding contributions to each one of the particulars that make up a RTS game, though. To wit:

Real: Oh, yes! Warcraft II definitely "keeps it real" by putting humans in there with orcs, elves, gnomes and dwarves. Aragorn is some half-elf wunderprince that lived for 200 years. Jones to Tolkien: Not human enough, maggot! Ditto the Bible.

Time: Warcraft II sucked away an enormous amount of time from me. Maybe Dune II could have done it, except that we'll never know because it's kind of shitty. Let's ask Q and A for their help on this.

Q: Is Dune II kind of a shitty game, even though it's first?
A: Acknowledged!

Q: Heh?
A: Moving out!

Q: Hahahahahahahah!
A: ... Nyaaah-hahahahahaha!!!!

Strategy: Yeah, I don't really remember how great the "strategy" was in WC2. I remember that the female elves led to great "strategy" as in, "How can I have an entire squadron of girl elves without my girlfriend who is logged into a 16-channel bulletin board in the next room finding out?"

I think, on some level, you must realize this. I mean it is called Warcraft 2 after all.

Yes, but if you are ignoring Dune then you have to let me ignore Warcraft.

The reason for it's enduring and peculiar popularity is that it just happens to be the first RTS to come out with an intuitive, useable interface.

It had a nice demo, as well, that everyone could get and play the hell out of. I'd say that aside from the Doom and Duke Nukem 3D demo, the WC2 demo was the most important demo of our time.

In other words, it's very similair to Warcraft 1, Dune 2, and probably some other, lesser known early RTS, only more polished.

Yes, but it's still a lot more fun. Plus, it looks nicer. Dune II always made me feel like I was getting suburned when I was playing it. If I wanted to feel like I was getting a tan, I'd go outside.

And what's worse, Warcraft 2 is in all meaningful ways (other than interface and presentation) a step backwards from its forefathers. Dune 2 had three different "sides", all of which had unique strengths and weaknesses.

No! WC2 is a step up! It's a step up, because they ignored that silly rock-scissors-paper thing, and just went with ROCK and PAPER. (Or maybe SCISSORS. But not all three.)

Who fights wars where there are three sides involved? Not humans. Here's a brief primer on war:

World War I: Allies vs Axis

World War II: Allies vs Axis

Viet Nam War: France vs Viet Nam

Viet Nam War 2.0: USA vs Viet Nam

French Revolution: Unwashed vs Washed

Genghis Khan's Super Real Time Adventures: Mongolia vs World

CaveWars IV: Thrackscogs vs Hrrrrrnnggggagathons


War, unless you're talking about war in Africa, which nobody really understands, is like a Hall and Oates single. Very One-on-One.

The evil red guys (I no longer remember the names of the different Houses)

This is because Dune II isn't very memorable. =(

Now, let's compare this to Warcraft 3. Better graphics and sound, more polished interface.

The graphics are brighter, but are they better? I at least knew what was going on in WC2 at all times. I hate the graphics in WC3.

Better storyline.

I don't really play these things for the story.

Three sides, each with their own unique units. No boats or transport units of any kind.

No boats? Ohhh, dear. Ooooh dear this isn't good.

Resurrectable heroes. This is quite clearly the superior game. Someone who'd never played a single RTS in their life could read an FAQ for each game and arrive at that conclusion.

It is a mess, though. There's a bunch of nonsense on the screen. It's too busy. Less is more when it comes to moving my dudes around. It's like when I did that one picture for the Awful Forums trying to depict Icewind Dale for the Atari 2600 -- Pinback said, "Well, at least I can figure out what the hell is going on out there in the 2600 version."

Doesn't anyone fight during the day in Warcraft III?

Why are things so gloomy and depressing?

And you're disagreeing based on having played Warcraft 3's opening tutorial mission and not particularly like it?

Actually, RTS as a whole is pretty much played out in 2004. I'm sort of sick of all new RTS games, to be honest with you. I hope that doesn't invalidate my entire post; I tried to make it entertaining before this terrible conclusion that we all knew was coming came.

[Worm]

I've one question. If WC3 consisted of just a single race that had a palette swap would it be just as good as WC2?

[pinback]

The graphics are brighter, but are they better?

Yes, by several orders of magnitude.

I at least knew what was going on in WC2 at all times. I hate the graphics in WC3.

Well, then you have no business even entering into this discussion. This is like saying a steak cooked medium-well is better than a steak coo-- oh. Wait, never mind.

Doesn't anyone fight during the day in Warcraft III?

Does anyone know what this man is talking about?

Actually, RTS as a whole is pretty much played out in 2004. I'm sort of sick of all new RTS games, to be honest with you. I hope that doesn't invalidate my entire post

No, you took care of that several paragraphs ago.

[pinback]

Actually, RTS as a whole is pretty much played out in 2004.

This is a man who plays and writes text adventures in his spare time.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

The graphics are brighter, but are they better?

Yes, by several orders of magnitude.

That was a rhetorical question. They are, of course, inferior. But I'm glad we have someone on the BBS that goes out of his way to embarassingly answer rhetorical questions. It's nice to know that the kids who came here to stalk Keza have someone they can slum with, in terms of terrible posts.

I at least knew what was going on in WC2 at all times. I hate the graphics in WC3.

Well, then you have no business even entering into this discussion. This is like saying a steak cooked medium-well is better than a steak coo-- oh. Wait, never mind.

I have plenty of experience looking at things. But more, I have plenty of experience looking at computer graphics.

I don't know what "world" WC3 is supposed to take place in, but it's not one that is particularly engaging to look at. The graphics in #2 are crisper and more functional.

Actually, RTS as a whole is pretty much played out in 2004. I'm sort of sick of all new RTS games, to be honest with you. I hope that doesn't invalidate my entire post

No, you took care of that several paragraphs ago.

I was only kidding; my post was the most comprehensive on the subject of RTS games that anyone has ever seen. We covered a lot of territory there. I need a cigarette every time I go back and read it.

[Lung Cancer]

I need a cigarette every time I go back and read it.

:-)

[R.J Reynolds]

I need a cigarette every time I go back and read it.

:-)