Jolt Country

This is a post for anyone who is interested in space trading games. I have done a cursory review of all of the ones released in the last few years, and have come to my findings, which I will now present to you.

I should state here that I have restricted this list to real-time, "sim" type games. There are lots of space trading games which you play by clicking buttons, as if you were choosing your own adventure. Some of these games are just fine. However, this cannot substitute for flying around the universe yourself, making a decent profit.

So, here we go:

(This will not be a post good enough to get on Jolt Country, so don't expect it to be. It's going to be very short, and it's going to suck.)

GAME: FlatSpace II
REVIEW: This game is a sequel to FlatSpace I, but is mostly the same game. While rendered in 3D, it's only a 2D game, though that does not keep it from being fairly enjoyable. However, it's terrible menu systems, lack of options which make it possible to play the game without a pencil and paper nearby to map out the universe, and also the fact that you can die any second for some random reason that you had no control over, keep it from being the Best Space Trading Game On The Earth Right Now (BSTGOTERN).

GAME: EVE Online
REVIEW: Finsternis swears this is the greatest game ever, and it might be, but I really don't have the time or inclination to learn a whole online universe, deal with all the online crap, and whatever else is required here, particularly since your ship is depicted in third-person, which is very weak. If you're gonna render the whole universe in 3D, at least let me fly my ship for fucks sake. So, maybe the best game in history, but for my money, NOT the BSTGOTERN.

GAME: VegaStrike
REVIEW: This is an open-source 3D space trader. It also may be the best game in history, but if you can keep from laughing at how bad it looks within the first five seconds of loading it up, you are a better human than I. First of all, nothing in space other than ships moves, so if there's no ships on the screen, it's impossible to tell you're moving. Also, the effect they've developed to indicate that you're in hyperspace is, the stars on the screen all turn into lines. That's it. No sound, no movement, just... dots become lines. "THIS MEANS YOU ARE MOVING FAST!" - VegaStrike. So, no.

GAME: X3: Reunion
REVIEW: This actually might be the BSTGOTERN, but there's no way to tell because the interface is so goddamn horrible and the game is so goddamn confusing. Apparently you can build an entire EMPIRE by buying factories and transport ships and automate them all and wowee zowee! But I'll never know, because there's virtually no documentation, and they made up for this lack of documentation by making the game extremely complicated, so that there's no way anyone could ever figure out what is going on unless they were paid by the second to sit in a dark room and decipher this thing over a period of years.

GAME: Evochron Alliance 2.0
REVIEW: This game doesn't have the graphics of X3, or the depth of EVE, or the whimsical humor of FlatSpace... indeed, it seems very much like a combination of all of these, but with all of the distinguishing characteristics removed, and (much more importantly) most of the downsides also removed. You fly your ship, and you can dock places and land on planets and do combat, and you can trade, but can still figure out what it is your trading and how much you're getting paid, and you can die real quick, but at least you know that in at least some small way, it WAS your fault, and the physics are good, and the graphics are fine, and it's cheap and very well supported.

So you know what?

Evochron Alliance 2.0 is the Best Space Trading Game On The Earth Right Now.

Enjoy!

i can't even make it through the training man

Yes, but you're on all variety of drugs and alcohol.

pinbacker wrote:Yes, but you're on all variety of drugs and alcohol.

Is it the best because it's better than all the other crap out there, or because it is a great game in its own right? It sounds like it will easily be crushed by a better game sometime.

What would you say are features that should be in a space trading game? Let's say we were going to make one: what would you want in it? Or more, what do you definitely not want in it?

(Note: I am not volunteering to make a space trading game. At least, not before 2011.)

For me, Flatspace was killed by the "lined up cubes" effect. You couldn't go from one quadrant to the next without warping. It really made the universe feel like a bunch of arcade-style boards placed next to each other in an array. So for me, I want to be able to fly from one quadrant to the next if given enough time.

And fuck docking.

I will answer some of your questions now, and the big one (what do you want in a space trading game) later.

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:Is it the best because it's better than all the other crap out there, or because it is a great game in its own right? It sounds like it will easily be crushed by a better game sometime.

It is the best because it is better than all the other crap out there, and because it is a good, not great game in its own right. Taken out of context, it would still be a fine, but not overwhelmingly fantastic game. However, since it is currently best of genre, it gets a few bonus points, as well as my hard-earned $24.95.

For me, Flatspace was killed by the "lined up cubes" effect. You couldn't go from one quadrant to the next without warping. It really made the universe feel like a bunch of arcade-style boards placed next to each other in an array. So for me, I want to be able to fly from one quadrant to the next if given enough time.

I agree with this, and Evochron Alliance suffers from this same problem, so I consider EA killed for you, as of this writing.

And fuck docking.

I like docking. EA has lots of it.

For me, Flatspace was killed by the "lined up cubes" effect. You couldn't go from one quadrant to the next without warping. It really made the universe feel like a bunch of arcade-style boards placed next to each other in an array. So for me, I want to be able to fly from one quadrant to the next if given enough time.

I agree with this, and Evochron Alliance suffers from this same problem, so I consider EA killed for you, as of this writing.

Arrrgh! Why do they do this? Who started this? Why? WHY?

Isn't the entire point of the space exploration the idea that you can travel anywhere and go any place? This is a fundamental break in genre as far as I can tell. Now, much like hygraed telling me why Linux apps aren't pre-compiled, I am willing to admit that my mind can be changed. But goddamn, it completely fucking breaks mimesis.

It is a Crime Against Mimesis.

(Which I think is a plant?)

Elite wasn't like that, right? I do not remember this in Elite. These games should be endeavoring to be exactly like Elite, but with better graphics. (OK, OK, not really, but still.)

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:Isn't the entire point of the space exploration the idea that you can travel anywhere and go any place? This is a fundamental break in genre as far as I can tell.

You make a point. However, consider the alternative, which is a huge universe zillions of miles across.

You would still need some sort of "jump" mechanic, because nobody's going to sit around for three days while you go from one ass end of the galaxy to the other. The player would have to bring up a star map, click on the area of space they want to explore, and hit "jump". Which is virtually identical to what happens in "sector-based" games, where you choose the sector, hit "jump", and you're there.

In this way, games like EA and FlatSpace are actually superior to their cousins, which use "jump gates". Those are extra stupid. At least EA and FlatSpace let you jump from anywhere.

In EA, in fact, you can jump from one place in a sector to another place in the same sector, since they are sizeable sectors. So, there is no difference in the player experience between jumping around a sector and jumping to a different sector.

I agree with you in theory, though. In practice, however, there's little difference between lots of little sectors and one big sector. You're still gonna jump wherever you wanna go.

Elite wasn't like that, right?

Elite was absolutely like that.

These games should be endeavoring to be exactly like Elite, but with better graphics.

EA does the very best job of this, of all games which have tried it.

I want a real-time space game. I want to be born, click on a map, and get there around the time I die.

I want a real-time space game. I want to be born, click on a map, and get there around the time I die.

http://www.joltcountry.com/trottingkrips/alpha.html

Apparently someone brought Elite up to snuff to play on today's computers.

I downloaded it and tried it for about 10 minutes, and these 10 minutes inspired the following thoughts:

1. Evochron Alliance very obviously patterned itself after this game, down to the "incoming missile warnings".

2. EA doesn't appear to allow passenger ferrying as an option, but Elite does. This is a major, MAJOR point in Elite's favor.

3. Besides that, though, is it possible that Elite has the reputation it does just because it was the first one to do it? Because, I know it's over 20 years old and all, and it was obviously a labor of love, but... damn. You know?

pinbacker wrote:

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:Isn't the entire point of the space exploration the idea that you can travel anywhere and go any place? This is a fundamental break in genre as far as I can tell.

You make a point. However, consider the alternative, which is a huge universe zillions of miles across.

You would still need some sort of "jump" mechanic, because nobody's going to sit around for three days while you go from one ass end of the galaxy to the other.

Three days?

Surely you've played "Journey to Alpha Centauri (In Real Time)" ?

http://www.wurb.com/if/game/1142

Bruce

bruce wrote: Surely you've played "Journey to Alpha Centauri (In Real Time)" ?

http://www.wurb.com/if/game/1142

Bruce

Ice Cream Jonsey, Two Posts Up The Screen wrote:

I want a real-time space game. I want to be born, click on a map, and get there around the time I die.

http://www.joltcountry.com/trottingkrips/alpha.html

Alright, we get it.

pinbacker wrote:3. Besides that, though, is it possible that Elite has the reputation it does just because it was the first one to do it? Because, I know it's over 20 years old and all, and it was obviously a labor of love, but... damn. You know?

Probably. Certainly you have to roll up your sleeves and get down to it with Elite. I found "A New Kind" like you did a few days before, and man, it's going to be slow going before I get competent at that.

Still can't believe that the 8-bit didn't have Elite. God damn it, I could have left that thing on Elite for years. YEARS straight.

I'm warming up to your idea of the best space game ever currently on the market. If I had some spare cash I'd get it and take a look. Is there a demo?

Yes, there is a demo.

You can download it here!

Actually, you just download the full game, but it doesn't open all the systems to you unless you register it.

Another good thing about EA is that it's done by an independent developer who does nothing but space sim games, of all different styles. He obviously has a love for the genre, and just keeps at it.

If I could be dedicated to ANYTHING for the length of time he's been dedicated to space games, my life would have turned out very differently. Not better, not saying better, just... differently.

Also, I just got an email from the author who clued me into this upcoming sequel to EA, and if you read the FAQ, it would appear to be the greatest game in history.

Of special note for Jonsey here is this line:

The main goal of the game's design is to provide the only freeform space-sim that lets you buy, trade, negotiate, bribe, spy, race, transport, mine, explore, recruit, design your ship, and protect in an open, seamless universe (without loading screens or sudden environment flipping) also without system 'walls' or required jump/warp gates.

Boom. There you go.

Yes, that is exactly like what I was hoping to have. Awesome. I'm going to buy it when it is ready.

Any update on selling pirates into white slavery? Because if it's not in space trading games I don't know where else I am going to get my "fix".

Whoa! That was quick! I thought it was still in development?

How is it buddy? I want to know if I should get it!

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:Whoa! That was quick! I thought it was still in development?

Dude is fast. Course, it had been in development for quite a while. But when he entered the testing phase, apparently there were no bugs! So, BAM!

How is it buddy?

Dunno, I just saw that it was released today. I'm still at work, and as such have not had a chance to check 'er out.

I want to know if I should get it!

YES!