The thread where we are respectful of Red Dead Redemption

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Mon May 24, 2010 11:49 pm

A couple of points, as we begin being respectful to this game:

1. GTA3 was the most magical gaming experience I ever had. The sequels and GTA4 did not affect me nearly as much, because for whatever reason, the magic was gone. Call it a re-skin if you will, Robb Sherwin, but with RDD, the magic is back, baby!

2. I have played it for several hours now, which means that I actually am still at the very beginning of the story, because there is just too much to see and do. Like I said, I felt that way with GTA3, and I feel it even more with this.

3. Robb's complaints about previous Rockstar games are probably not going to stop because of this. Camping allows something approaching save-anywhere, but even that restriction, along with the fact that water still kills you instantly are still likely to annoy. Personally, I think they keep the "water kills you" thing in this game both because it's now a running joke with Rockstar games, AND as an homage to the Sundance Kid, who of course, couldn't swim, even though the fall would probably kill him.

4. This seems more "Elite"-ish than the GTA games, because it is so wide open. Yes, there are roads, but they provide only a slight speed benefit to your horse, and your horse can basically go anywhere. All of the large buildings of GTA have been replaced by small plants and animals that you can just gallop over. And although I do miss hand-braking around corners, this is excellent.

5. If you are not forced every once in a while by your jaded, miserable brain to stop galloping along, rein in your horse, and gaze upon the completely astonishing visuals that this thing offers up every three minutes or so, your heart has truly died. This is one reason I've gotten nowhere in the game, because I keep just getting sidetracked by being there. Even loping down main street on your horse with no particular place to go is fucking inspiring.

6. GOOFY BUT COOL: It is a movie. The camera is actually there. When it is raining, if you tilt the camera down, no rain hits it, but as you tilt it up, more and more drops start to hit the lens. Say what you want about this, but make it respectful.

Anyhow, best game I've played since GTA3. MUCH RESPECT, YO.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Tue May 25, 2010 7:27 am

Pinner is referring to this, with the "respect" thing: http://www.caltrops.com/pointy.php?acti ... pid=128112

I think it's safe to say that "Rockstar" (what a gay name for a company) has lost me as a consumer. I don't know, maybe I'll get this thing when it's $9.99 in three years. (The fact that it takes three years for them to lower the price of their games is retarded. None of them are worth $50 or $60, ever.)

The Rockstar (god that's a terrible name) marketing department sent this out:

News.com.au tells the tale of Toby McCasker, a former deputy entertainment editor for the magazine ZOO Weekly, who claims he was fired for blowing the whistle on efforts by Rockstar Games to influence coverage of Red Dead Redemption. McCasker posted excerpts on Facebook of an email allegedly from Rockstar saying: "This is the biggest game we've done since GTA IV, and is already receiving Game of the Year 2010 nominations from specialists all around the world," going on to say: "Can you please ensure Toby's article reflects this â€” he needs to respect the huge achievement he's writing about here."

I couldn't hate people who think like that any more than I do, and I hate them with ever fiber of my being. The greasy, slimy, miserable pieces of shit. "He needs to respect the huge achievement" ... just... the words in that order, I never thought I'd see them and HOLY FUCK the entire field of video games is irrevocably broken.

I haven't pirated a video game in a really long time. Pirating video games doesn't hurt video game companies, they just say that it does because their investors are too stupid to not believe it. If pirating this pile of shit hurt them - if it ACTUALLY hurt them - I would do it. Because I would like to hurt them. I would like to hurt them for that attitude and for what else they did, as described in the Caltrops post.

I can't separate the games and the assholes who make it any longer. Rockstar (hangs self at the name of that company) calling one of their games "redemption": the least poetic name ever?

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Tue May 25, 2010 8:31 am

Robb, I think you misread the title of the thread! This is the thread where we are respectful of RDR. I certainly do not think your post was in keeping with that simple categorization!

AArdvark · Post by **AArdvark** » Tue May 25, 2010 1:34 pm

Should I get this game for my PS3? Heavy Rain is supposed to be a great game but I dislike all the complex control shit. Do I have to undergo a learning curve similar to a linux release in order to play RDR? Is the game just another GTA set in the old west? I enjoyed Mafia, but do not like any of the GTA games, would I enjoy this? I know I could (and have) browsed over to the webpage, but they won't tell me anything bad about the game in the hopes that I purchase it. Would you respectively classify the game as a cross between The Sims: Westworld and Pirates!?

THE
NEW TITLE IN THE WORKS
AARDVARK

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Tue May 25, 2010 3:42 pm

AArdvark wrote:Should I get this game for my PS3?

No.

Do I have to undergo a learning curve similar to a linux release in order to play RDR?

No.

Is the game just another GTA set in the old west?

N-- essentially, yes.

I enjoyed Mafia, but do not like any of the GTA games

Why the holy fuck not?

would I enjoy this?

No.

Would you respectively classify the game as a cross between The Sims: Westworld and Pirates!?

I don't know the former. I would definitely say there are elements of Pirates! except there is a story you can follow if you'd like. Or you can just go from town to town, doing stuff. Or just ride around and hunt coyotes. Or rob people blind. Or you can just sit at the bar and drink the entire time if that's what you want.

It definitely feels more "wide open" than GTA, but that's likely due to the, you know, wide open playing field. However, many of the same dynamics from GTA are present here. I didn't know it was possible to dislike GTA, though (other than petty complaints about the save system and evil marketing departments.)

AArdvark · Post by **AArdvark** » Tue May 25, 2010 4:43 pm

I was revolted by the main character's Hawaiian print shirt and the rest of the game went downhill from that. I saw where you could switch characters and play as a hooker but still didn't like the style of gameplay.

AArdvark · Post by **AArdvark** » Tue May 25, 2010 4:45 pm

The Sims: Westworld was actually my joke, based on every conceivable sims release and the movie Westworld where Yul Brenner starts killing people with his bald android head.

anyway..Screenshots?

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Tue May 25, 2010 5:07 pm

AArdvark wrote:I was revolted by the main character's Hawaiian print shirt and the rest of the game went downhill from that. I saw where you could switch characters and play as a hooker but still didn't like the style of gameplay.

How do you compare GTA's style of gameplay to Mafia's, another noted open-world game with cars you can steal?

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Tue May 25, 2010 5:09 pm

AArdvark wrote:anyway..Screenshots?

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Tue May 25, 2010 6:24 pm

Well, San Andreas used the word "n!33r" almost every other word. Let's not pretend there are no reasons to dislike GTA games. I would defend their right to make and sell the game to everyone, even kids, because I think it ought to be the problem of the parents to control their children. I personally chose to skip a game where, ho ho, there they go again, black people calling each other n!33rs for forty hours. (Well, it's not just that group; if Rockstar ... GOD I hate the fact that they call their company that... makes a game one day about Jews living under Nazi Germany, I suppose all the hate speech for Jewish people is going to be jam-packed into the game. But I don't need social commentary from video game developers, and I ESPECIALLY don't need it from the manchildren at ... deep sigh... "Rockstar" who are too stupid to figure out the necessity of save-anywhere.)

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Tue May 25, 2010 6:31 pm

pinback wrote:Robb, I think you misread the title of the thread! This is the thread where we are respectful of RDR. I certainly do not think your post was in keeping with that simple categorization!

Well, here's the thing: I have lost all but my capacity to hate. I guess a lot of you have gone through this years ago. I look at the world and I see nothing but things worth hating.

This company and the pieces of human feces that work in their PR department are included in this hate.

But that's besides the point. One of the reasons the Madden football franchise is so god awful is because it's impossible to not have a defensive player move. If you're trying to keep your linebacker in the middle of the screen, you can't do it. You HAVE to move him or the game takes over and moves him for you.

Now, this makes the entire game crap. It does. I've never seen anyone defend this behavior, and you certainly can't toggle it off. It is a design decision the development team has made, and more - with the turnaround at EA (lose half a billion dollars? keep the managers, fire the staff) there's nobody on Madden who's been there for more than the last few years. So each new team understands that moving the defensive player is a requirement. If it's NOT there, they have to fix it. It's a detail that is as vital to them as John Madden's commentary.

They're, of course, absolutely wrong. It's a prime example of the entire franchise being unplayable. And it's the exact same thing with the lack of save-anywhere and "Rockstar" games.

Rockstar employs largely incompetent mission designers. These designers would be completely saved (meaning, they'd still be terrible, but nobody would noticed) if "save-anywhere" were incorporated into their games. It isn't. It's inexcusable and has meant that the games are broken, that they are in beta and that they aren't remotely finished. It's at the point right now where if it accidentally got in, it would be removed. Not letting the player save his game is a feature[/]b. A requirement. And it's wrong, and I know that they are wrong because I know infinitely more about game design than they do, and I'd claim that probably 75% of the people reading this post know more about basic, fundamental, proper game design than the people making "Rockstar's" games.

I mean, when you mentioned that water kills you, and how it's probably a reference to their incompetence at dealing with water in GTA - ha ha ha, hilarious!

I really have a problem with them making shitware, charging top dollar for it, and then sending out press releases that get people fired who are actually fighting the good fight in the bend-over, fake profession of game journalism.

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Tue May 25, 2010 7:31 pm

This is a man who was willing to pay me $20 for my copy of GTA4, which I will gladly give him for free, because I'd rather do it on horseback.

Now THAT'S showing the proper respect!

The original GTA3 didn't say n!33r all the time, just San Andreas. And though I didn't play it, I doubt Gay Tony was dropping N-bombs all over the place.

My favorite part of these games is when a mission is over, and you get your reward, and it just throws you back into the world. Whatever you do next, that's up to you. Isn't this why everyone's been clamoring for a new Elite for the last fifty goddamn years? These games are fifty thousand million times better and more immersive than Elite, and all you stupid fucker (I KEPT THAT SINGULAR, ROBB M. SHERWIN) can do is nitpick about the goddamn Save Anywhere.

For EIGHT YEARS, now, this has been your refrain. GET A NEW SONG. Where do you want to save in RDR than you cannot save now? The only place you can't save that you want to is in the middle of a mission, because you know you SUCK at video games, and will probably die in the middle of it and have to do it all over again. Every complaint you've ever had about really good games can be directly traced back to the fact that you have been, are, and always will be TERRIBLE AT VIDEO GAMES. You realize this failure so turned to making them instead, which shields you from the inevitable late night glance into a mirror where you see not your own face, but a giant, steaming wad of INEPTITUDE staring back at you. Blame the designers!!

Blame the designers.

What a disgrace. I would suggest you launched into a new Top 100 List: Games I Was Terrible At, but it would be the SAME GODDAMN LIST. (*)

(*) Except for Crystal Castles and Q*bert. And the computer football game of your choice.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Tue May 25, 2010 8:46 pm

pinback wrote:This is a man who was willing to pay me $20 for my copy of GTA4, which I will gladly give him for free, because I'd rather do it on horseback.

Well, my copy of GTA4 was a gift from my brother and mother. And the 360 scratched the goddamn thing.

Also, I have ownership issues and can't take you up on your offer since you'd want it back at some future date.

And I am sorry I was so mad in that earlier post.

My favorite part of these games is when a mission is over, and you get your reward, and it just throws you back into the world. Whatever you do next, that's up to you. Isn't this why everyone's been clamoring for a new Elite for the last fifty goddamn years? These games are fifty thousand million times better and more immersive than Elite, and all you stupid fucker (I KEPT THAT SINGULAR, ROBB M. SHERWIN) can do is nitpick about the goddamn Save Anywhere.

For EIGHT YEARS, now, this has been your refrain. GET A NEW SONG. Where do you want to save in RDR than you cannot save now? The only place you can't save that you want to is in the middle of a mission, because you know you SUCK at video games, and will probably die in the middle of it and have to do it all over again. Every complaint you've ever had about really good games can be directly traced back to the fact that you have been, are, and always will be TERRIBLE AT VIDEO GAMES. You realize this failure so turned to making them instead, which shields you from the inevitable late night glance into a mirror where you see not your own face, but a giant, steaming wad of INEPTITUDE staring back at you. Blame the designers!!

Blame the designers.

What a disgrace. I would suggest you launched into a new Top 100 List: Games I Was Terrible At, but it would be the SAME GODDAMN LIST. (*)

(*) Except for Crystal Castles and Q*bert. And the computer football game of your choice.

Yeah, but isn't it infuriating when they throw a multi-stage mission at you, and you can't save after the first stage?

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Tue May 25, 2010 8:47 pm

Also, every game I've made features one thing in common: save-anywhere. (Revenger didn't have a bar.)

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Tue May 25, 2010 8:52 pm

Don't go all soft on me now, you prancing piracetam whore. Let's GET INTO THIS SHIT LIKE THE GOOD OL--

Ah, forget it. I haven't run into a multi-stage mission in either GTA4 or RDR, so until I do I consider that a "fix" of sorts. Yes, it was aggravating when that happens. Yes, you should be able to touch water without dying like you're in an M. Night Shyamalan movie.

But goddamn, dude.

They're so much fun.

Ah well.

WORST OF!!

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Tue May 25, 2010 9:58 pm

pinback wrote:Don't go all soft on me now, you prancing piracetam whore. Let's GET INTO THIS SHIT LIKE THE GOOD OL--

Not bad. Was the content of that post at the bottom of a bottle of gin? No? Then why do you keep looking there?

Ah, forget it. I haven't run into a multi-stage mission in either GTA4 or RDR, so until I do I consider that a "fix" of sorts. Yes, it was aggravating when that happens. Yes, you should be able to touch water without dying like you're in an M. Night Shyamalan movie.

I'm OK with the invisible "bump," by the way. The bump you get when you try to swim to a place in a game that doesn't let you. I'm ok with that. Dying by water is just... it's just...

Well, that being said, missions where you have to swim suck as well.

I guess the reason I "like" GTA4 is that I haven't played it enough to see the inevitable mission where I have to control a remote-control helicopter. I haven't been able to play it enough because the build quality of the 360 is the worst in console history. How did *I* scratch a game? Me. Me! I barely play these things.

WORST OF!!

Here's a good one for you. A name I trust on another forum has this to say about how Madden handles franchise drafts:

Madden has 30 pre-made draft classes. They are the same characters with the same ratings, every single time. The only thing the game does is randomize which class you get in a certain year, of the ones that are left. The game uses these if you don't import an NCAA draft class.

LITERALLY worse than Front Page Sports Football Pro 98. (FPSFP98 had completely random draft classes, and let you edit them into your favorite new NFL players.)

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Wed May 26, 2010 12:31 am

I am aware that FPSFSPFSP98 is the best football game in history. Well, I am aware primarily that I didn't understand anything you said about Madden and FSPFSPFP, which secures in my mind that I don't really understand 1) football, 2) videogame football, so I'm willing to bow to your greater knowledge and understanding when it comes to anything regarding the ol' pigskin. (Except for any version of Cyberball, NATCH.)

I'm okay with that. I ensconced myself in hockey this year, and now generally find it a more enjoyable, comprehendible spectator sport. Hey, this time fifteen years ago, it was all about NASCAR, so I feel I've progressed.

All of this is distracting from the respect that we need to be showing for RDR in this thread. In this life.

RDR makes me feel young, as when the world was new.

Jonsey went through this with me tonight. We were bantering back and forth about the constant annoyances of having to deal with people in the IT field who have latched onto one thing they've convinced themselves they're good at, so anytime they're called upon to perform a task, they will put on a song and dance to show you 1) why that's not the right task, 2) why your infrastructure is not up to the task anyway, and 3) why their task is way more important than the one you're asking for, but it doesn't matter, because 4) they're not going to do the task anyway, because it is so beneath them and wrong.

This could have gone on for hours, and we would all have been the richer for it. But I put a stop to it. And why?

BECAUSE I AM ALMOST 40 YEARS OLD, AND FOR GOD'S PUSTULE-FILLED SAKE, ALL I WANTED TO DO WAS FIRE UP THE XBOX AND BE A COWBOY.

I just wanted to be a cowboy. Just for a couple hours, at night, after I've dealt with all the other nonsense I deal with on a daily basis over here.

RDR... you let me be a cowboy, and for that, I THANK you, and more importantly, I respect you.

AArdvark · Post by **AArdvark** » Wed May 26, 2010 5:12 am

So ...er, is it possible to horsejack people?

Actually, if I shouldn't play it on my PS3 then I'm not going to get it.

Mafia had a little more class, maybe because they had most guys wearing suits and hats. Quite possibly because I am so old school that I liked the scenery so much I would just tool around randomly for an hour in a convertible. Couldn't get into doing that in GTA. Plus all the radio stations sucked out. I changed all the music in my copy of mafia to play Zeppelin songs. Killer!

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Wed May 26, 2010 7:17 am

I'm not sure why Pinner said to not get it for your PS3. He might have thought you had both consoles and was recommending the 360 version. I think he clearly loves the game. It lets him "be" a cowboy.

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Wed May 26, 2010 8:32 am

AArdvark wrote:So ...er, is it possible to horsejack people?

Yes.

Actually, if I shouldn't play it on my PS3 then I'm not going to get it.

What the hell are you talking about?

VARK: "Is it like GTA? Cuz I hate those games."
PINNER: "Yes it is, so you'll probably hate it."
VARK: "So should I get it for my PS3?"
PINNER: "No. Because it would be stupid of you to get a game that we've already deduced you will hate."