So awesome to have no sportsball!

[Tdarcos]

My best sports joke was, if someone asked me what I thought about the Redskins, I would say "I don't follow hockey."

That can't be your best sports joke.

Oh yes, it can. Since I don't follow sports at all, it's my only sports joke.

[Billy Mays]

My best sports joke was, if someone asked me what I thought about the Redskins, I would say "I don't follow hockey."

That can't be your best sports joke.

Oh yes, it can. Since I don't follow sports at all, it's my only sports joke.

I laughed at it!

[Tdarcos]

RetroRomper?

the shirt is a lie.
the shirt is a lie.
the shirt is a lie.
the shirt is a lie.

"This was a triumph
I'm making a note here
Huge success..."

[Finsternis]

To watch an NFL game (or any professional competition) is to see some of the greatest athletes at their peak competing at a level none of us will ever realize.

And you feel Esports is different somehow?

When I watch people compete in esports all I can think about the entire time is that I could be in the other room playing video games instead of sitting in the living room watching people play video games.

Just curious - do you view that as a good thing or a bad thing? Are you saying that professional sportsball players inspire you more somehow?

There's another forum member actively working on launching a videogame related non-profit -- maybe the two of you can combine forces. Have you met RetroRomper?

Heh. This was not going to be non-profit. Quite the opposite, in fact, LOL. But thanks.

[Flack]

To watch an NFL game (or any professional competition) is to see some of the greatest athletes at their peak competing at a level none of us will ever realize.

And you feel Esports is different somehow?

Oh, absolutely! The skill gap between any one of us and Tom Brady is infinitely wider than the skill gap between casual videogame players and professional videogame players. It's ludicrous to pretend to believe otherwise. I know lots of people who are good at videogames. I don't know anyone who can dunk a basketball, much less with seven-foot-tall men trying to stop them. Like, you could stop what you're doing right now and dedicate the rest of your life to playing basketball and probably not even be the best person in your neighborhood.

Last year after the Bears missed a field goal, they invited fans to attempt the same kick. Literally nobody made it.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/bears- ... oud-expect

When I watch people compete in esports all I can think about the entire time is that I could be in the other room playing video games instead of sitting in the living room watching people play video games.

Just curious - do you view that as a good thing or a bad thing? Are you saying that professional sportsball players inspire you more somehow?[/quote]

I'm not inspired by either one, personally. I'm just saying making a three-point shot with someone's hand in your face is impressive, and playing videogames at any level is not impressive to me.

[The Happiness Engine]

"Large man who hates sports does not know anyone who enjoys sports."

[Finsternis]

Oh, absolutely! The skill gap between any one of us and Tom Brady is infinitely wider than the skill gap between casual videogame players and professional videogame players. It's ludicrous to pretend to believe otherwise.

Seriously? So he can throw and catch a ball really well. Big Fucking Deal. To do that he pretty much had to give up everything else in life and do nothing but practice to do that. And in order to do it he had to win the Birth Lottery and be born into a very strong and fit body. I have way, way more respect for some twentysomething from nowhere who might not be able to throw a Frisbee but has devoted just as many hours into developing a skill that involves *way* more than just throwing and running. Someone who had not one moment of fancy coaching, no high school teams or cheerleaders. Does Tom Brady know how to hold off a Zerg rush while simultaneopuly building and launching an air invasion? Pbbbtthhh! Puh-lease. It's ludicrous top pretend otherwise. How is Tom Brady's muscle memory better than an Esports prop gamer's?

Like, you could stop what you're doing right now and dedicate the rest of your life to playing basketball and probably not even be the best person in your neighborhood.

f
And Tom Brady could give up his football career and dedicate the rest of his life to being a pro gamer but he never would be able to.,

Last year after the Bears missed a field goal, they invited fans to attempt the same kick. Literally nobody made it.

If you're saying "a professional is more skilled than an amateur", well, fuck - of course they are. That's why they are professionals. That's true in any field of endeavour. But if you're trying to say "I takes more skill to be a pro football player than a pro esports gamer", then I completely disagree. And Tom Brady only has to compete with Americans, not people from all over the world. The barrier to entry for esports is absurdly low which makes it the most merit-based game of skill in the world, not requiring any money. Not so much with pro football. Also, kids who play esports don't have to get brain damage by constantly jolting their brains around in their skulls.

I'm not inspired by either one, personally. I'm just saying making a three-point shot with someone's hand in your face is impressive, and playing videogames at any level is not impressive to me.

It may not be impressive to you, but it's impressive. You have no concept of how hard these games can be. If you think it's so easy, go get yourself well-ranked on one of the leading Esports games and then I'll reconsider.

[Finsternis]

"Large man who hates sports does not know anyone who enjoys sports."

If you're referring to me, I know tons of people who enjoy watching sports.

I just don't know why.

[Angry Stewart Payne]

Seriously? So he can throw and catch a ball really well. Big Fucking Deal.

playing videogames at any level is not impressive to me.

It may not be impressive to you, but it's impressive. You have no concept of how hard these games can be. If you think it's so easy, go get yourself well-ranked on one of the leading Esports games and then I'll reconsider.

This is a joke right?

[Finsternis]

This is a joke right?

Funny, that's exactly what I thought to myself when Flack started worshipping the ground some football grunt walked on and claiming he was some kind of god. ;-)

"Me big guy! Me throw ball good! And catch! And run! Me highly skilled at throwing, catching, and running! And it only take me decades and hundreds of thousands of dollars to learn! Ooga!"

[Flack]

Seriously? So he can throw and catch a ball really well. Big Fucking Deal. To do that he pretty much had to give up everything else in life and do nothing but practice to do that. And in order to do it he had to win the Birth Lottery and be born into a very strong and fit body.

That's exactly my point and I'm glad you agree, although the phrase "throw and catch a ball really well" is a bit dismissive. It's like saying the world's best chefs "cook some food, big deal," or talented artists "put paint on a canvas, bit deal."

How is Tom Brady's muscle memory better than an Esports prop gamer's?

Well you just said one can be done by a twenty-something with no training while the other had to give up everything in life and be born into a strong and fit body to do his job, so there's that. Again, we agree.

Funny, that's exactly what I thought to myself when Flack started worshipping the ground some football grunt walked on and claiming he was some kind of god. ;-)

That's 100% wrong, but whatever. I never said that. What I essentially said was, the only reason anyone knows about esports is because right now professional athletes are playing them on ESPN, and it's still terrible to watch.

Regardless, you have me pegged all wrong. I'm not the biggest sports guy on this forum; I'm not even the biggest sports fan in this thread. What I am is a guy who didn't heed the warnings of everyone who remembers your last stint here and made the mistake of thinking you were looking for interesting conversation instead of just making up facts and putting words in people's mouths just to have someone to argue with. I can already tell your a "last word" kind of guy so I'll let you have it. Enjoy your pseudo-philosophical yawn fests with Tdarcos.

[Tdarcos]

The skill gap between any one of us and Tom Brady is infinitely wider than the skill gap between casual videogame players and professional videogame players. It's ludicrous to pretend to believe otherwise.

If you're saying "a professional is more skilled than an amateur", well, fuck - of course they are. That's why they are professionals. That's true in any field of endeavour. But if you're trying to say "I takes more skill to be a pro football player than a pro esports gamer", then I completely disagree.

And you'd be completely wrong! (See below.)

And Tom Brady only has to compete with Americans, not people from all over the world. The barrier to entry for esports is absurdly low which makes it the most merit-based game of skill in the world, not requiring any money.

I don't even watch football and I know your points are wrong. Let's examine why.

1. In everywhere except the USA and probably Canada, the term "football" means what we Americans call "soccer." That's why when they reference our football games in soccer countries, they call it "American football."
2. Nobody else in the world plays American football, so this Tom Brady fellow, whomever he is, is not going to play against international players, as there aren't any. In either case (American football or eSports) where there are international players, they're all pretty much the same, since they'd all have to play by the same rules. It's not the player's fault other countries aren't interested in American football and prefer soccer. (Same as professional soccer hasn't made a toehold here.)
3. College football is used as a sifting ground so professional spots teams may pick some very good players. (It's also used as a cash cow by colleges, who use players like indentured servants.)
4. College players who get injured lose their scholarship and do not have any benefits (like worker's compensation) for their injuries.
5. The few college players who get picked for pro ball have gone through an intensive process, including hardening (getting used to taking impacts from some 200 pound hulk such as himself, and getting used to slamming into things (like other players))
6. They go through brutal practice and actual college games.
7. They then go through the same training/hardening if they get to the NFL.
8. There is a secret "playbook" creaated by each team explaining all the plays they have and code signals. This might be 200-300 pages, and players have to learn all of it.
9. If a player transfers to another team, their secret playbook can't be used and a new one has to be learned.
10. Since games started being filmed, and now that video costs nothing, they watch their old games to see their mistakes. They also watch other team's games to learn their plays and their strengths and weaknesses.

To become a professional American football player requires a year or more at the college level, then starting out as a rookie (at low salaries) and working up to full professional status, except for a few superstar performers. It's hard, brutal work even after you've shown you're talented. Even if you are talented you have to be able to learn a lot of material and to work with the other players on a team,

Now, let's look at eSports.

1. Yes, there is strategy, and skill, a lot you can learn from watching other players.
2. Basically, just about anyone who wants to put in a few hundred hours of playing games to figure out good moves - if other people haven't already discovered them and reported them - can get good at it.
3. About the only qualification is having sufficient vision and manual dexterity to handle a keyboard and mouse as dictated by the game's UI.
4. For games with multiple players working as teams, this is not going to be as difficult to coordinate on a virtual game field as a real one
5. You're not taking punishing blows when on the field
6. You don't have to worry about running into one of your teammates
7. You don't have to worry about getting physically injured by a player from an opposing team or the AI of the game
8. You don't suffer aches and pains (or you don't when playing with ergonomic mice, keyboards, monitors, desks and chairs) playing eSports.

In short, the bar to get into eSports is much lower than physical, contact sports like American football because the risk and danger to players is zero, and the overhead to be a player is within the budget of an ordinary person, not something rfequiring a commercial business to afford.

[The Happiness Engine]

OK, let's see here. There are 200 Starcraft2 Grand Masters in the world. How many people play in the NFL again?

[Jizaboz]

While I have previous experience as racing, I do not consider motor racing of any form a sport. It’s a fucking race, not a sport.

No such things as motor sports and no such thing as E sports. If you are driving a vehicle or using a controller, that isn’t a sport.

“Sports shooting” is equally as dumb. It is called target shooting.

[Finsternis]

That's exactly my point and I'm glad you agree, although the phrase "throw and catch a ball really well" is a bit dismissive. It's like saying the world's best chefs "cook some food, big deal," or talented artists "put paint on a canvas, bit deal."

But the second two things require creativity and imagination.

Well you just said one can be done by a twenty-something with no training while the other had to give up everything in life and be born into a strong and fit body to do his job, so there's that. Again, we agree.

Just because it can be done by a twenty-something doesn't mean it does not take endless hours of practice and a lot of sacrifice. I meant that they manage to do it without fancy trainers OR winning the genetic lottery.

What I essentially said was, the only reason anyone knows about esports is because right now professional athletes are playing them on ESPN, and it's still terrible to watch.

You could not possibly be more wrong. I caution you in the future to not make absurd statements about something you don't know the first thing about, especially when you're talking to someone how knows a lot about the subject. I don't feel like going through all the reasons you're wrong (history, financial, etc) - if you're curious, do some research yourself. Esports is growing exponentially, worldwide, has been doing so since long before any Pro Sportsball players were doing it, and will continue to do so. If those people had never appeared on ESPN it would not even make the tiniest drop in the bucket of Esports in terms of popularity and profitability. If you don't believe me, maybe you will believe Goldman Sachs, one of the biggest financial companies in the world, and what they have to say about it.

https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/p ... /e-sports/
https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/p ... aming.html
https://strivesponsorship.com/wp-conten ... Report.pdf

As for "it's still terrible to watch" - well, pro football, basketball, and baseball are all even worse to watch.

What I am is a guy who didn't heed the warnings of everyone who remembers your last stint here

Warnings? There were warnings? Where? I want to read them; I'm curious what everyone was so scared of me for. I'm tickled that I'm so intimidating people have to warn each other about me. Oh, I see - was it done behind my back? That figures.

and made the mistake of thinking you were looking for interesting conversation instead of just making up facts

If you point to some specific fact you think I "made up", please point it out to me and I will double check. I assure you I will, and that I will apologize if I turned out to be wrong. My entire goal in life is to be proven wrong. It's not easy, but it happens every once in a while. Then I thank the person who did it and continue on with more accurate information. As for "interesting conversation", would it be more interesting if I agreed with everyone about everything?

Enjoy your pseudo-philosophical yawn fests with Tdarcos.

Oh, I don't enopy them, trust me. I'm curious, though - if you thought they were "yawn fests", why did you read them?

[Finsternis]

(deleted a whole shitload about pro sorts that, as usual, I was already more than well aware of)

My only comment is, if you think learning a few plays in a playbook is hard, it's nothing compared with, say, learning how to strategize in Starcraft II. The second thing takes a lot of brains.

[*]Basically, just about anyone who wants to put in a few hundred hours of playing games to figure out good moves - if other people haven't already discovered them and reported them - can get good at it.

Bahaha! Define "good". "Good enough to beat the other kids on the block"? Sure, maybe. "Good enough to succeed at a professional level?" Not in a billion years. You have no idea what you are talking about, as usual. It's not a matter of "learning some good moves".

[*]About the only qualification is having sufficient vision and manual dexterity to handle a keyboard and mouse as dictated by the game's UI.

Oh, that's all? I see. So it follows that the only requirement for being a pro sports athlete is having sufficient vision and dexterity to handle a ball as dictated by the game's rules, right? And the only requirement for Mideast peace is for the people there to stop fighting. It's all so simple!

What was the last game you played, out of curiosity? One that was not on a phone? What's the game you were ever best at in your life?

[*] For games with multiple players working as teams, this is not going to be as difficult to coordinate on a virtual game field as a real one

Oh, really? Why do you fantasize that is? This ought to be good.

[*] You're not taking punishing blows when on the field

Right! A win for everyone! People no longer have to get their brains destroyed over a fucking piece of leather! Progress! Or are you trying to imply that there is some kind of skill and/or nobility and/or other laudatory thing that arises from having your brain constantly bounced around?

[*] You don't have to worry about running into one of your teammates

And pro sports players don't have to worry about hitting their teammates with rocket launchers or plasma grenades.

[*] You don't have to worry about getting physically injured by a player from an opposing team or the AI of the game

Physically? Right! And you view this as a negative exactly why, again? And, of course, while esports players don't have to worry about physical injuries, they of course DO have to worry about being hurt by opponents, AI or human.

[*] You don't suffer aches and pains (or you don't when playing with ergonomic mice, keyboards, monitors, desks and chairs) playing eSports.

I'm really trying to see what your point is about implying that failing to be an unfeeling neanderthal brute who doesn't feel pain is somehow a stain on the honor of esports players.

In short, the bar to get into eSports is much lower than physical, contact sports like American football because the risk and danger to players is zero, and the overhead to be a player is within the budget of an ordinary person, not something requiring a commercial business to afford.

And well it should be! A low barrier to entry is a good thing for everyone! Who cares? In what way is that a bad thing? None of that makes physical players any better in any way than esports players. It certainly doesn't make people more skilled if they get trodden upon all the time. It kind of makes them morons who made a bad career choice.

[Finsternis]

No such things as motor sports and no such thing as E sports. If you are driving a vehicle or using a controller, that isn’t a sport.

Why not? What's YOUR definition of "sport" Does it have to include a ball somehow?

[Jizaboz]

No such things as motor sports and no such thing as E sports. If you are driving a vehicle or using a controller, that isn’t a sport.

Why not? What's YOUR definition of "sport" Does it have to include a ball somehow?

Not at all. I just demand physical activity on more of a level than hitting pedals and levers. Dirt bike stunts are an exemption.

[Finsternis]

Why not? What's YOUR definition of "sport" Does it have to include a ball somehow?

Not at all. I just demand physical activity on more of a level than hitting pedals and levers. Dirt bike stunts are an exemption.

Sorry, boomer. Welcome to the 21st century. Your definition of "sport" will soon be listed in the dictionary as "archaic".

[Tdarcos]

Finsternis, this BBS does properly block quote replies, and it will indicate who said what. However, you took my comments, then broke bock-quoting to make it look like I quoted a long conversation with you. Either you did it through intentional misconduct, simple negligence, or because you don't care. And you should have seen quoting was wrong if you previewed the message before submitting it. Bui to cause it to happen you had to remove quote marks, making an already difficult thread even harder to understand.

You're so nasty and irritating to try to respond to that I don't want to bother telling you where I disagree or where you could be wrong. Oh wait, you're never wrong, and I'm just a fool who should be ignored. Never mind.

In any case, there's really no reason to bother responding to someone who considers himself always right, everyone else to be worthless, and not even worth the time to at least be respectful to another person even if you don't agree with them.

You know, you're right about one thing. You don't have free will, as you seem to be unwilling to learn anything or make a change for the better. "The better" to mean "to improve Finsternis' interactions with other people, so that they will at least be willing to think about and consider his ideas, even if they don't agree with him."

If all you want to do is troll, go someplace else. If you want to carry on a conversation, quit the attitude, and soon, before you are ignored.