Curry's Paradox: Either I've resolved it or I don't imderstand it

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Tdarcos
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Curry's Paradox: Either I've resolved it or I don't imderstand it

Post by Tdarcos »

I happened to stumble on the Wikipedia entry for Curry's Paradox. I'm either resolving the paradox or I don't understand it. Here's the description and example:
Curry's paradox is a paradox in which an arbitrary claim F is proved from the mere existence of a sentence C that says of itself "If C, then F", requiring only a few apparently innocuous logical deduction rules. Since F is arbitrary, any logic having these rules allows one to prove everything. The paradox may be expressed in natural language and in various logics, including certain forms of set theory, lambda calculus, and combinatory logic.

The paradox is named after the logician Haskell Curry. It has also been called Löb's paradox after Martin Hugo Löb,[1] due to its relationship to Löb's theorem.

Claims of the form "if A, then B" are called conditional claims. Curry's paradox uses a particular kind of self-referential conditional sentence, as demonstrated in this example:

If this sentence is true, then Germany borders China.

Even though Germany does not border China, the example sentence certainly is a natural-language sentence, and so the truth of that sentence can be analyzed. The paradox follows from this analysis. The analysis consists of two steps.

First, common natural-language proof techniques can be used to prove that the example sentence is true.
Second, the truth of the example sentence can be used to prove that Germany borders China.

Because Germany does not border China, this suggests that there has been an error in one of the proofs. The claim "Germany borders China" could be replaced by any other claim, and the sentence would still be provable. Thus, every sentence appears to be provable. Because the proof uses only well-accepted methods of deduction, and because none of these methods appears to be incorrect, this situation is paradoxical.
I disagree that there is a paradox, because I can resolve it. I can simply say, we analyze a sentence as a whole. For example, "If this sentence is true," is a conditional clause. It depends on a condition antecedent to the clause. Since the secondary clause "Germany borders China" is not true, therefore the sentence is false and no paradox occurs. Now, I think the opposite might be better as an alleged paradox, e.g. "If this sentence is false, then Germany borders China." Yes, the sentence is false, but, truth is that which is concordant with reality. Since the sentence is false, none of its conclusions have any value or relevance, because they have no relation to reality, so they have no validity. Thus, the proposition ""Germany borders China" is irrelevant.

Another way to put it is if a sentence is false, that is, not concordant with reality, any claim or proposition within may be ignored. This also resolves the paradox.

An example in math is 0*. 0 times anything is 0 regardless of what number follows, therefore any digit or string of digits may be ignored. Same if the entry to the right is a parenthised expression, it may be ignored as irrelevant.

So maybe someone can show me where I have misunderstood the paradox? I resolved it in about 10 minutes, it seemed way too easy. The inverse was harder.
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RealNC
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Re: Curry's Paradox: Either I've resolved it or I don't imderstand it

Post by RealNC »

(It's been 15 years since my Logic classes, hopefully I still remember correctly.)

This isn't about sentences. It's about statements in the context of mathematical logic. You cannot split it into two parts. It's one single statement with a single truth value. Mathematically, it's this operation:

P:"If this statement is true, then Germany borders China."
P => "Germany borders China"

If you assume the statement is true, then Germany borders China. We know that's not true. If we assume that the statement is false, we get:

P:"If this statement is false, then Germany does not border China."
P => "Germany borders China"

Same conclusion. The "paradox" is simply the fact of having demonstrated that our formal mathematical rules are incomplete.

Curry simply showed that there are inherent limitations in our formal (meaning mathematical) logical systems when self-reference is allowed. Curry's example is very simple for demonstration purposes. What's not so simple is knowing whether or not you've stepped into such a case when you're dealing with complex mathematical proofs.

If you want an example that's more familiar to you, simply imagine a boolean function in a programming language that only calls itself and has no terminating condition. To know what functions do, you need to look at them first. In this case, you will be just looking at the same function over and over again, without ever being able to tell what value it will return. The question of "what does this function do" simply has no answer. We resolve this "paradox" with everyday common sense (like you did in your post) by using terminating conditions or tail recursion. But it cannot be resolved by using only the formal mathematical rules we know of.

Going back to "If this statement is true, then Germany borders China", or "P" for short, we need to look at every part of P to determine it's truth value. The first part refers to P itself, so we look at P, which then tells us to look at P again, etc.

It's not a coincidence by the way that the Haskell programming language (which is inherently recursive) is named after Curry.

TL;DR:

All Curry did was show that self-referential logic statements can break math.
Last edited by RealNC on Fri Jan 12, 2024 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Curry's Paradox: Either I've resolved it or I don't imderstand it

Post by pinback »

Mmmmm, curry.
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Re: Curry's Paradox: Either I've resolved it or I don't understand it

Post by Tdarcos »

I don't know how the statement as given represents a mathematical problem. It is a word problem, strictly text describing a supposed logical problem. Further, it probably contains a logical fallacy.

Beyond which, mere words do not have the capacity or incapacity of proving anything. Real-world things are proven by facts. I'd argue it is wrong because it proceeds to declare a fact not concordant with reality.

I do not think it qualifies as a mathematical paradox because I see no math. Take the statement, "If this statement is true, then 2+2=306." That one I'd have an easier time accepting it's mathematically related, but I think it still fails.

I'll give an example of a mathematical problem expressed in words: (I've used it before)

A girl says it's unfair because she has twice as many brothers than sisters.
Her brother says that's not true, he has the same number of brothers and sisters.
Both are right, and from this you can tell how many boys and girls are in this family.

As soon as someone shows how the Curry Paradox example originally bears some relationship to a mathematical problem, then it might be arguable as a paradox. Again, I suspect I don't understand it. I'm not being obtuse, I do want to understand.
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Re: Curry's Paradox: Either I've resolved it or I don't imderstand it

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

I cannot wait till my next curry.
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Re: Curry's Paradox: Either I've resolved it or I don't imderstand it

Post by AArdvark »

That was straight from the Wiki article



Curry = German or Cinese food

food is good because without food you die


.....I got nuthin'

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Re: Curry's Paradox: Either I've resolved it or I don't imderstand it

Post by Flack »

The point of the paradox is that you can put unrelated things in the second half of an equation that don't relate to the first half and contradict one another.

If (1=1) then (red=blue).

One does equal one, but red does not equal blue.
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Re: Curry's Paradox: Either I've resolved it or I don't imderstand it

Post by Da King »

AArdvark wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:05 pm Curry = German or Cinese food
So, what you are saying, is that this Paradox is solved by putting two different kinds of food next to each other on your plate?
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Re: Curry's Paradox: Either I've resolved it or I don't imderstand it

Post by Tdarcos »

Da King wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:19 am
AArdvark wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:05 pm Curry = German or Cinese food
So, what you are saying, is that this Paradox is solved by putting two different kinds of food next to each other on your plate?
That's about as good a description as any other (wrong) one.
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I'm not afraid, any more."
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Re: Curry's Paradox: Either I've resolved it or I don't imderstand it

Post by AArdvark »

Commander, thank you for trying to be serious about stuff like this, it balances the mayhem in the other bases

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Re: Curry's Paradox: Either I've resolved it or I don't imderstand it

Post by Ice Cream Jonsey »

I did have curry today. It was delicious.
the dark and gritty...Ice Cream Jonsey!

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