Cactus FLACK'S

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:35 am

In this thread, we can do all sorts of fun things, like ask Flack about his games, what his plans are for his games, and tell him how awesome the barn is that he has for his games. BUMPER CROP.

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:19 am

Me, in 2008: "This is the greatest hobby ever!"

Me, in 2011: "Kill me."

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:58 am

Flack, what are your plans for your games?

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:46 pm

Well, if I have another one die due to the heat, I'm going to Double Pinback it.

ICJ · Post by **ICJ** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:00 pm

Please consider answering one of the following questions:

1) What are your short-term GOALS for the arcade?

2) What is the next game you want to add? Based on desire, not opportunity. For instance, if someone gives me Double Dragon, I guess Double Dragon is in my arcade. But the next game I WANT is Warlords.

3) Was your 10 Yard Fight cab really just a JAMMA cab? I don't mean to ask yes/no questions. Do you have a 10 Yard Fight board hanging around?

Those are good to start. This could be the thread where I tell you my problems trying to arrange the Summer Game Swap. (No new problems, all the ones you've heard about before are there, though.)

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:20 pm

ICJ wrote:Please consider answering one of the following questions:

1) What are your short-term GOALS for the arcade?

I am about to type a really long and brutally honest answer to this question.

My buddy Jeff and I grew up in local arcades. ICJ's been to Yukon -- the main part of town is about 9 square miles, and in the mid-80s there were four decent arcades here (not including Cactus Jack's, which is in OKC). Jeff lived within walking distance of two of the four arcades, so when we weren't banging away on his Commodore 64 we were usually at one of them.

When I first decided to collect arcade games I started by buying the cheapest games I could find. I literally bought games I didn't care for or had never even heard of because I got them for $25 at an auction. Hell, I can't stand Scramble and I've owned that shitty game twice. Before I knew it I had a large (25+) collection of arcade games, many of which I didn't care for. So, I had an "arcade", but I didn't enjoy it. But that was phase one (the "having an arcade" part, not the "not enjoying it"). Phase two was to sell or trade off the games I didn't care for and get more games I liked, but that phase aborted itself because a lot of the games I owned started dying. So because I bought so many inexpensive games, my collection now mostly consists of (a) crappy games that work that no one (including me) wants to own, and (b) decent games in dire need of repair.

This will/may come as a surprise, but the main reason I still own most of my games is because of Jason Scott and ICJ.

About two or three years ago, I decided that even if I took a horrible loss on them all, I was going to get rid of the vast majority all my games and be done with the hobby. Part of this was because I was so overwhelmed by the mess I had amassed, and part of this was because I rarely play them. My arcade games are in a building out back behind my house, so it's not like I just talk past them every day and play them. There are literally months at a time that I never see them. I actually had considered getting rid of them before that, but I was working on Invading Spaces that I thought it would look pretty stupid for a guy writing a book about arcade games to (a) not own any, or worse, (b) be selling ones he couldn't repair.

So anyway, about five years ago Jason Scott mentioned to me that he was going to do a documentary about arcades and arcade games and arcade collectors. I really wanted to be a part of that project and I thought the odds of me being interviewed would drop substantially if I didn't own any arcade games. For a while, my motivation to keep (and hopefully fix) my games was so that I could be in that documentary.

The other reason I decided to hang on to my games was because of Robb. After joining Jolt and talking to him, I suspected that at some point I would end up seeing his collection of games, and I wanted him to see mine. Because really let's face it, everybody else I know (like all my local friends) have already seen the collection, and it's not like I'm hanging out at clubs meeting people and bringing them back to my house to show them my collection of arcade games or something.

Robb saw the collection last month, so that mental box got checked off. As for Jason's documentary, the last thing I heard was on February 2, 2011 he posted on his blog saying that he was about to start a Kickstarter fundraiser to acquire funding for his next film. I know between then and now Jason started working for Archive.org and archiving GDC stuff and it appears the Arcade thing may be on the back burner. Keep in mind that I have never discussed this whole thing about hanging on to my games with Jason -- this is just some weird idea/plot I came up with in my head. Now, thinking about it logically, I've kind of decided that keeping around a bunch of wooden luggage in hopes that I might or might not be included in someone's project that might or might not happen is a pretty dumb reason to keep them.

(I told you this was going to be long. Jesus.)

A couple of years ago, my wife and I came up with a five-year-plan on building a new house. Actually, that was two years ago, so we plan on staying in this house for three more years. We've been looking at plans and the odds of me building another backyard arcade are pretty slim. What's much more likely is that we'll have a game room, in which I can put one or two or maybe half a dozen arcade games, but not 30. I don't even want 30. So when I think about that future, that we may be in a different house in three years, the reality of selling off most of my games hits me.

So. "What are your short-term GOALS for the arcade?"

The short-term GOALS for my arcade are to begin selling games. Before I can do that I'll have to decide which I'll be keeping and which I'll be selling. I'm keeping 720, for sure. I may put my 48-in-1 in a nicer cabinet. I'd like a better MAME cabinet. I'm not sure what else I will keep. Probably Buggy Boy, just because of its uniqueness. Anything that plays remotely decent in MAME is out the door.

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:39 pm

ICJ wrote:3) Was your 10 Yard Fight cab really just a JAMMA cab? I don't mean to ask yes/no questions. Do you have a 10 Yard Fight board hanging around?

The "10-Yard Fight cabinet" is really just a JAMMA cabinet. I was at a friend's house one time and he had a 10-Yard Fight marquee lying in a pile. I mentioned that I used to like that game as a kid and he gave it to me.

I paid $50 for the cabinet from a guy who was getting out of the hobby and begged me to take it. I went over to his house to pick up some joysticks and a couple of PCBs and ended up leaving with a cabinet, too. Damn me for driving a pickup. I have two or three monitors sitting around waiting to be repaired so eventually I will fix one (har har) and throw it in that cabinet and put a board in there and then ... profit?

When I got the marquee I didn't have a good place for it so I just leaned it up against that cabinet you saw. It's not even installed or anything. A ferocious wiggle would have uncovered my chicanery.

I do not own a 10-Yard Fight board. It plays so well in MAME that I've never bought one. It's also, as you may have noticed, a really horrible game that no one should ever play. If you manage to win the first football game (which you can if you only make like 1 or 2 mistakes), you go to a harder level where you can't win if you make any mistakes. Sometimes, the only winning move is not to play.

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:48 pm

ICJ wrote:2) What is the next game you want to add? Based on desire, not opportunity. For instance, if someone gives me Double Dragon, I guess Double Dragon is in my arcade. But the next game I WANT is Warlords.

I think the right answer is Wizard of Wor, right? Actually, that game is going right into Jeff's garage. Jeff loved that game and so I'm just going to drop it off over there for him to enjoy for a while. He really wants a MAME cabinet but we've never had the time to put one together for him.

One of my favorite games is Great 1000 Miles Rally. I bought a PCB of it a while back (it's JAMMA) and was going to build a cabinet for it but then I found out there's a very similar version out for Neo-Geo, so I could really just buy that cart and install it in my Neo-Geo cabinet.

[youtube][/youtube]

Here's the Neo Geo one. You can tell it's the same engine with slightly different graphics.

[youtube][/youtube]

I dunno. It sounds like a pretty shitty thing to say, but I think my next machine will be a nice MAME cabinet.

PS: I love Double Dragon.

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:34 pm

I'd like to know from both Flack and ICJ:

What arcade game purchase do you regret the most?

I feel like I know ICJ's answer, but I'd like to hear from the bofe of you.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:53 pm

Okay, I don't feel bad about asking to buy your Road Blasters in that other thread, then.

There is a lot to reply here, and I am traveling shortly. Let's see how much we get to. But let's all have an understanding that Flack dropped the Hiroshima and Nagasaki of nukes on this little thread here. The bombs, I mean. Not the cities. Whatever.

So because I bought so many inexpensive games, my collection now mostly consists of (a) crappy games that work that no one (including me) wants to own, and (b) decent games in dire need of repair.

Not for the first time, I regret the distance between our home towns. A guy who works in front of a computer, whose main hobby has him in front of the computer needs shit to do outside of a PC, and even though there are computers in arcade games, they qualify. GOD, what I would do for a week of no other distractions than fixing your games. (I can't do monitors.)

It would be weird and creepy, because you would effectively have a weird person living in your detached shed for 7 days, but the progress. The progress!

The thing is, there are certain *parts* that are tough and expensive to get. So perhaps you want to finally part ways with your fifth Scramble or something -- what if that Scramble has a great monitor in it? And something you want to save forever doesn't? You're now in a state where you can't sell the game you don't give a shit about, because it'd be nice to swap monitors. And swapping monitors isn't technically difficult, just hell on earth.

I feel for you in this. They really should have come up with a solution for screen burn earlier than they did.

** ignores the miraculous difficulty in shooting a fucking electron gun at a tube to display moving images **

I've got an issue to deal with as well. My gal would like it if we bought a house together. That's fine, except I don't know how I am ever going to get one with as much empty space as this one had. That's not a real thing, because we COULD get a place with more square feet and whatever, but it's out there. But moving these things someplace - Christ. I can't even fathom it.

This will/may come as a surprise, but the main reason I still own most of my games is because of Jason Scott and ICJ.

This DID. Let's end this post here and tackle this in a new one.

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:56 pm

pinback wrote:I'd like to know from both Flack and ICJ:

What arcade game purchase do you regret the most?

I feel like I know ICJ's answer, but I'd like to hear from the bofe of you.

Yeah, you know mine. I sold my Neon R/T when I got my Subaru, for a thousand bucks even.

I was browsing craigslist the next day and saw Xenophobe listed for $1,000. I'm just angry that I did no research. I can't believe it. It's a two hundred dollar game. Three hundred at MOST. I can't believe that fucking guy had the elephant balls to even list it at that. It just... fuuuuuck.

It cost at least another $50 to pay movers to get it up the stairs in the apartment, by the way.

It was unfun when I realized you can coin up as much as you want.

It was unfun when I realized that I don't have enough local friends to play three players at once.

God, what an abortion. Sold it for $260 and I was lucky to get that.

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:29 pm

pinback wrote:I'd like to know from both Flack and ICJ:

What arcade game purchase do you regret the most?

I feel like I know ICJ's answer, but I'd like to hear from the bofe of you.

I have bought a lot of shitty games over the past fifteen years, and I have a lot of regrets, but most of them only gave me one regret. Like, "I paid too much for that game," or "Well it would have been nice if that game had worked when I got it home," but my biggest regret was probably buying Heavy Barrel for $200.

I didn't know all that much about Heavy Barrel when I agreed to buy the game (over the Internet). The seller told me the game could be converted to a Neo Geo. Well, technically it could, but that would be beyond retarded. In retrospect, that's like saying that any game could be converted into any game with enough work.

Then, I was so desperate to buy a game -- any game -- that I drove to Austin to pick up this game. This trip is documented in the first chapter of Invading Spaces, but in case you missed it, the day I drove down to pick up the game also happened to be OU/Texas weekend, so the drive took like 10 hours and cost me at least two tanks of gas. Plus it rained, so I had to buy tarps and tie-downs. The whole trip was a fucking mess.

Then when I got the game home I fucking dropped it while moving it across the lawn, which (temporarily) broke the monitor. Also it rained on us the whole time we were moving and loading and strapping down the cabinet. Also the seller was a high school kid who hadn't told his parents he was selling the game, so after 12 hours and all this money invested I really thought I wasn't even going to get it.

Then I found out that you can't really convert it into a Neo Geo and I was like LAKJSHIHSDF)Y(**(HFDKJHFDNKF

Plus every time I go to an auction Heavy Barrel sells for like $1.42.

Plus I was like "Well at least I can play Ikari 3 in that cabinet" so I bought that board and it's horizontal instead of vertical.

Oh and instead of being painted, the god damn thing is wrapped in gray vinyl, which mostly peeled off and you can't really paint over it.

I just got fucking mad typing all this up so I'mma stop.

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:25 pm

Nobody wrote:What are the best and worst parts of collecting arcade games?

I'm so glad you asked!

Despite my negativity, there are a few pretty cool things about collecting arcade games.

The WOW Factor: Not everybody collects arcade games. Hell, there are probably a lot of people who don't know anyone who owns a single arcade game. It's always cool when people see my collection for the first time and their jaws drop.

Reliving Your Youth: With almost every game in my collection, I have a story about the first time I played it. I have specific locations, dates, times and friends associated with most of my arcade memories, so playing arcade games makes me remember those days. When I play Gauntlet, I think about the time my friends and I first saw Gauntlet and dominated the machine for hours. When I play the game on the GameBoy, it doesn't make me feel the same way.

Historical Preservation: I don't own any super rare cabinets, but with so many machines that have died or been modified throughout the years, numbers are dwindling. Sometimes, I feel like just by hanging on to a machine, I'm helping to save it from destruction -- or possibly, extinction.

Social: Owning an arcade game (or games) automatically inducts you into a fairly small inner-circle. And as it turns out, it's by and large a pretty cool circle of people. For the most part, people help one another, share information, and trade hardware and knowledge freely. It's a good circle of people to be associated with.

Fun: I almost forgot about this one. Playing arcade games are fun.

And then there's ... the downside:

The logistics: In this heap I'll toss finding them, buying them, moving them, storing them, finding a place for them, etc. They're big and heavy.

The cost: They're relatively expensive to buy, especially when compared to MAME which is free. They're also expensive to work on. Things like t-molding and buttons and power supplies are cheap. Monitors are expensive. Artwork is expensive. Some things are insanely expensive. The joystick assembly on my 720 cabinet -- the freakin' joystick -- is $150. If you want a classic game (and most people do) then you can end up paying hundreds of dollars for a "fixer-upper". That leads me to the next point.

The repairs: Collecting arcade games has less in common with collecting video games or computer games than it does with collecting classic cars. I mean, I have Atari 2600 cartridges that are 30 years old and full of dirt and they still work fine. If you've ever seen your neighbor the the hood open on his '68 Firebird pouring gas into the spark plug holes trying to get the damn engine to turn over, that's what the arcade hobby is like. It's amazing how indestructible these things seemed to be when I was a kid because now they seem downright fragile. And it's not even like a car where if the door has rust you can still drive it -- when pretty much any electronic part of an arcade game dies, it's dead. Now you have a couple-hundred pound chunk of wood that looks cool and does nothing. As I said in Invading Spaces, if you start collecting arcade games you need to (a) know how to work on electronics, (b) have a friend who knows how to work on electronics, (c) be willing to pay someone to work on your electronics, or (d) enjoy your collection of broken games.

Sum of the Parts: Like classic cars, assembled game aren't worth anywhere near the sum of their parts. You can buy a $75 cabinet, put in a $100 monitor, a $40 power supply, a $50 PCB, a $30 wiring harness, $100 in joysticks, a $20 marquee, $100 in new artwork, then spend a month sanding and painting and end up with a $100-$200 game. Seriously. Other than for personal aesthetic reasons, I have never seen any return on any investment in any game. It's like you buy a game for $100, put another $150 and a bunch of sweat into it, and then can only sell it for $150. Financially, they're a sink hole.

I'll probably come up with some more positive and negative aspects to collecting the more I think about it.

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:17 am

Per the post I made in the general forum, I am moving. The new house has a lot of cool features, but one feature it does not have is a 500 square foot building that I can use as an arcade. This means, more than likely, some machines have got to guh-guh-go!

I will be covering the moving of the machines in that thread. Or this thread. Anything to get some convo started.

ICJ · Post by **ICJ** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:00 pm

Your earlier message about a possible Denver trip is well-taken. I'm gonna exhaust resources trying to figure out a way to do this where you don't need to haul shit out here, and where you don't have to move anything to a new home.

For some reason I thought you had Gauntlet and not a Gauntlet II. I am now, as of this afternoon, desperately trying to figure out how to buy the following from you:

CENTIPEDE (minus any and all main PCBs you have, as I have one aching for a game)
GAUNTLET II (because it's one of the top 100 games ever, imo, and everyone assures me it will fit through a normal door opening, and it would kill me if I wasn't there for it)

I am officially out on Road Blasters, because the logistics of that doesn't work for me. I think you knew that, but I wanted to be sure.

I think I am going to retire my 48-in-1 game in the Polybius cab when Centipede arrives. It's already goofy because it's supposed to have a 25" horizontal monitor in it and it has a 19" vertical. Plus, companies stopped making 19" monitors, and that one would be better served in a real game.

God, I have a problem.

Flack · Post by **Flack** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:28 pm

I paid $200 for the Gauntlet II and it has a short in the video cable that causes every other line of the sprites to disappear. It's a $10 fix and I've been meaning to do it for 8 years now. Never got around to it. I have a spare control panel for it as well.

Gauntlet, physically, is narrower than you would think. It has a wide control panel that pops off easily enough. It's deeper than you think though. I will measure it tonight.

This is a poor option that would likely cost you more money than it would save, but I am going to the 1984 Arcade on Wednesday, November 9th. I doubt flying there and driving a truck back would save you any money.

Most of those shipping places I've looked at are $400 for one OR two games, so suddenly that $400 shipping (which sound terrible) turns into $200, which is cheaper than I could drive it out there. And if funds are tight we could work out a "pay for shipping now/pay for games later" deal, I'm sure.

ICJ · Post by **ICJ** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:46 pm

Yeah, let me do this - I just called precision-navl and asked for an estimate for two games. They said they would send me an e-mail with what it would take to get it from your ZIP code to mine. (Which is awesome of them.) They also asked for the games that would be shipped, which makes sense as I think they have a special agent that works specifically with arcade games.

I'm working with the assumption that carrying these goddamn monstrosities to the new house is not what you want to do. Fuck, I hate moving them around so I can vacuum around them.

What hours are you going to be at the 1984 arcade, anyway? Actually, after writing that sentence I looked to see what it would cost to fly in and out the same day from Denver. $1,181. I wish airlines would just put up a middle fucking finger when they obviously don't want to take people places. Haha what the fuck, over a grand to get from Denver to Springfield in the middle of the fucking week. I paid $300 to go to Edinburgh!

ICJ · Post by **ICJ** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:47 pm

Er, $300 less to go there. EDIT FUNCTION PLEASE.

Tdarcos · Post by **Tdarcos** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:22 pm

Flack wrote:Because really let's face it, everybody else I know (like all my local friends) have already seen the collection, and it's not like I'm hanging out at clubs meeting people and bringing them back to my house to show them my collection of arcade games or something.

Man: Hey, baby, how would you like to come by my place and see my huge collection of <s>etchings</s> coin operated video games?
Woman: (Smiles) Sure! I'd love to!
(Drives her over to his place.)
Woman: Jesus, you weren't kidding! You really do have a huge collection of quarter eaters!
Man: Well, what did you think I meant?
Woman: I just thought you were making up something just to get me over here so we could screw!
Man: Why would I want to do that? I can get any bar skank if all I want is a broad to bang! But a woman who's interested in video games is much rarer!

ICJ · Post by **ICJ** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:13 pm

Aw yeah, bringing broads back to the SExxxCADE, COMMANDER!

Tdarcos, if you could own a single arcade game, what would it eat?