First Impressions of SC2

[Tdarcos]

Right now I'm waiting for StarCraft 2 to Install. As per Pinback's recommendation I downloaded the downloader, e.g. the bootstrap that goes out to the Internet and downloads the actual game.

I am surprised at how fat the downloader alone is, it's 3 1/2 meg just for the program that downloads the rest. Well, that came through fairly quick. So I run it and it has me sign up for a Blizzard account, except I note you can't cut and paste, so it asks me for my e-mail address and I have to type it in twice instead of typing it in correctly then copying. Oh well.

So, having downloaded the downloader, it proceeds to install the content. Seven gigabytes! Jesus, two DVDs or a Blu-Ray of content! It's a good thing the content limit for Comcast is 250GB a month; if I was on some other systems where they set a cap of 20GB I could use up a big chunk of my bandwidth allocation from this one program.

I'm also thinking, if this is the free trial. how big is the paid version going to be? I'm just glad, given the amounts of disk space some applications routinely eat that I replaced the original hard drive in this machine with a 2 terabyte drive. (Actually it's not 2 terabytes (2x1024^10), it's 2 trillion bytes (2x1000^10, a difference of about 200 GB since an empty 2 trillion byte drive is about 1.81 terabytes.)

Oh, and I just checked, I have to be careful, I'm down to only 1 1/2 terabytes of space left.

So far, on the high-speed Internet I have from Comcast, I've downloaded about 9%, 650 MB and need about 2 hours more. I also note that what it's downloading isn't the actual game itself, it's downloading the installer for the game! (Some laughter here) This implies that the installer is perhaps a partially compressed application that will then take even more room to install the content.

Again, I'm glad I have 1 1/2 terabytes of disk space left.

[pinback]

It's likely that that's the full version, but until you register, it limits you to the functionality offered in the "starter version".

[Tdarcos]

I'd heard it was done but until I saw it in action I might not have believed it.

Blizzard uses Bittorrent to download the content for its game. Looking at the list it's sending me pieces of the game from lots of other places, it looks like it has about 50 sites it can pull pieces from, plus, it's taking pieces I have and sending them to others.

While so far I've downloaded about 1.2 GB of the 7 GB that the game requires, it's also had me upload 300 meg of the content I have to other people.

This is a good idea, it's in line with the original idea of the Internet, since there's no single point of failure, even if Blizzard's servers are badly overloaded, all they have to supply is a tracker to look where to retrieve the game from, the game itself can be retrieved from other people like me who already have it.

[Tdarcos]

Current status: 2.60 GB downloaded or 36%, uploaded 654 MB, about 87 minutes to complete.

[Tdarcos]

Download rate is running something over 800K/sec, upload rate about 120K/sec.

[pinback]

I am enjoying the play-by-play, Tdarcos! Thanks for doing this.

This is truly our September 11.

[Tdarcos]

The stupid goddam bootloader doesn't check before it downloads the installer, nor does the goddam installer check before dumping 7 GB of crap on my computer to tell me the minimum recommended settings to use the program are higher than what my computer has.

Couldn't the goddam downloader have bothered to check and warned me?

Apparently it's not below the minimum to run but whether the game is playable is another thing. Assholes.

[pinback]

Just set all the graphic settings to "low" and you'll be fine! If it helps, most pro SC2 players also have their settings all set to low, because it increases performance and makes everything clearer and easier to see what's going on.

Ice Cream Jonsey likes this.

[Tdarcos]

Well, I'll see what happens. As I suspected, this 6 GB installation program is going to require 12GB to install. Also I'm not sure how to tie this game into the user account, because apparently I have to connect the game to the account to play it, and sure, easy it can connect a $59.99 purchase to the account, but doesn't seem to indicate how to tie the free version to it.

And I'll tell you something, this motherfucking game would have to be a hell of a lot more exciting to justify being $15 more than Portal 2. They used to say that games were expensive because of problems with piracy. Now with games being locked to a system server, this basically makes piracy impossible, but I haven't seen the price of games drop much.

I mean, I just bought a copy of The Usual Suspects on DVD for $5, I'm wondering how this game which is close to that old is supposedly worth as much as it is. According to Wikipedia, Starcraft sold 11 million copies and this, Version 2, (Wings of Liberty) has been out since July 2010.

The first thing that tells me this is nothing but bloated crapware is the brain dead moronic requirement that the installer can't even warn me before I waste what could be potentially very expensive bandwidth - if I had been in Australia, for example, you basically pay for every byte you use above a small allocation - on a game I might not even be able to play.

Right now the Installer has finished and says it has to connect to the patch server. We shall see what happens.

More updating plus it keeps tripping the firewall that is blocking it from using the Internet that keeps asking me again and again if it's okay for it to access the Internet. I think Windows should realize if I said yes once, presumably I shouldn't have to be asked two more times.

So far, "Patch time 32 minutes." More indication of incompetent people releasing bloated crapware. Can't they build the goddam application so it's right without yet more patches? And Windows Firewall keeps asking me to approve the game's use of the Internet after I've said okay a half dozen times and now it keeps asking me over and over like every 5 seconds.

This reminds me of the crap with Second Life. It was like, every day I'd use it it would have a new, mandatory 20 megabyte patch I had to download before I could play the game, either I accept the 20 megabyte patch that day or I can quit.

As I said, if Comcast didn't give a fairly large Internet allocation this game would be expensive even before you started paying for it.

[Tdarcos]

What the fuck?

[pinback]

I'm not sure you're approaching this game with a very healthy attitude.

[Tdarcos]

The goddamn game just up and quit.

It's supposedly patching the install it just put in. Then it just up and quit. No warning. No error message. No indication that anything is wrong. No nothing. Just quit and return to the desktop.

Fuckin' bunch of incompetent assholes. I'll see if it bothered to put in a start menu item.

[pinback]

And I'll tell you something, this motherfucking game would have to be a hell of a lot more exciting to justify being $15 more than Portal 2. They used to say that games were expensive because of problems with piracy. Now with games being locked to a system server, this basically makes piracy impossible, but I haven't seen the price of games drop much.

Also, to be clear, this isn't "StarCraft, version 2". It is a proper sequel, much as "The Usual Suspects 2" would be a sequel to "The Usual Suspects", if such a movie existed.

Which, of course, it does not.

[pinback]

I'm surprised this is turning into such a debacle, by the way. I thought... TDR, SC2... what could go wrong?

That's what I thought.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

And I'll tell you something, this motherfucking game would have to be a hell of a lot more exciting to justify being $15 more than Portal 2. They used to say that games were expensive because of problems with piracy. Now with games being locked to a system server, this basically makes piracy impossible, but I haven't seen the price of games drop much.

Yes. Because of inflation. Game price has stayed the same (N64 carts were $80 in 1996, and yes, before you say it, I know that was mostly because of the expense of running cartridges, but my point is that the price was higher) but more of it is going to the publisher because piracy is down, there are in-game ads and they are distributed virtually.

I mean, I just bought a copy of The Usual Suspects on DVD for $5, I'm wondering how this game which is close to that old is supposedly worth as much as it is. According to Wikipedia, Starcraft sold 11 million copies and this, Version 2, (Wings of Liberty) has been out since July 2010.

A non-Blu Ray version of The Usual Suspects is $5 because it has been shown on free television every weekend for the last five years, and because the format (bog-standard DVD) is being phased out.

It is beyond the scope of this Internet to explain why a new game like Starcraft 2 is $60 (or whatever it is) and The Usual Suspects on DVD is $5.

The first thing that tells me this is nothing but bloated crapware is the brain dead moronic requirement that the installer can't even warn me before I waste what could be potentially very expensive bandwidth - if I had been in Australia, for example, you basically pay for every byte you use above a small allocation - on a game I might not even be able to play.

Paul, are you saying that you are upset because the game didn't warn you -- though you already decided to go ahead and get it virtually so you could try it first, without committing like you would via a physical copy -- that bandwidth is expensive in SOME places?

Blizz already knows you aren't in Australia. Why would they warn you about something they know doesn't affect you? Do you think they sell more hard copies in countries that claim to be first world nations but really have third world-style bandwidth monopolies?

Why is it bloated? Do you know how difficult it is to compress music that sounds good? How much music do you think is included in the game?

More updating plus it keeps tripping the firewall that is blocking it from using the Internet that keeps asking me again and again if it's okay for it to access the Internet. I think Windows should realize if I said yes once, presumably I shouldn't have to be asked two more times.

Do you think that disabling your firewall is a "good practice" when trying to run a game via the Internet? If not, why so?

So far, "Patch time 32 minutes." More indication of incompetent people releasing bloated crapware. Can't they build the goddam application so it's right without yet more patches?

Do you know that modern software release processes of the magnitude of SC2 often have a "base" install and then patches that their entire user base will have to use anyway? Can you think of any other programs that might use this philosophy? If not, why so?

This is very common in software development, Paul. This allows them to ensure that the process everyone used to get to the latest version is the same.

As I said, if Comcast didn't give a fairly large Internet allocation this game would be expensive even before you started paying for it.

In Libya, they don't even have Internet right now. Do you think Blizz should have told you that if you were in Libya you wouldn't be able to download and play Starcraft 2: The Wings of Liberty?

[Tdarcos]

Oh great. Started it up again and apparently it didn't apply any of the patches and had to download them all over again. And the goddam firewall keeps asking me if it's okay for the program to connect over the Internet after I just approved it for the 10,000th fucking time.

14% applying patch 3 of 37. And every couple of seconds as I write this the motherfucking firewall keeps asking me if it's okay to unblock. Oh, I think telling it "ask me later" slows down some of the requests. This needs to be fixed, it's ridiculous.

Apparently every time it goes to apply a new patch it trips Windows Firewall and that keeps asking for permission to unblock.

Ahh, in Control Panel I can turn off Windows Firewall. Then it warns me that doing this makes me vulnerable to viruses and such. Well, asshole, you ever hear of the story of the boy that cried wolf? I will probably turn firewall back on after SC2 finishes patching itself. Besides, I'm probably not in that much danger, I do have a hardware firewall with the router.

Yes, this fixes that problem, the patches it is installing are successful and stopped the Firewall nag machine.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

Is this more of a "yeast in vagina" type of complaint, though?

[Tdarcos]

The first thing that tells me this is nothing but bloated crapware is the brain dead moronic requirement that the installer can't even warn me before I waste what could be potentially very expensive bandwidth - if I had been in Australia, for example, you basically pay for every byte you use above a small allocation - on a game I might not even be able to play.

Paul, are you saying that you are upset because the game didn't warn you -- though you already decided to go ahead and get it virtually so you could try it first, without committing like you would via a physical copy -- that bandwidth is expensive in SOME places?

The goddam installer is a program running on the hardware, it knows what my hardware is, before having me potentially waste bandwidth and two hours of my time, it could have warned me, first, that the game might require more resources than my computer has.

Blizz already knows you aren't in Australia. Why would they warn you about something they know doesn't affect you? Do you think they sell more hard copies in countries that claim to be first world nations but really have third world-style bandwidth monopolies?

If I'm on a wireless connection with some carriers, there are bandwidth caps and using extra bandwidth is very expensive. But beyond that, having someone spend upwards of two hours running your downloader and then, at that point, you deign to inform them that their computer might be inadequate, that's utter contempt.

Why is it bloated? Do you know how difficult it is to compress music that sounds good? How much music do you think is included in the game?

Last time I checked I think 384K variable rate MP3 compression rounds to 4 meg per minute, perhaps less. So if they had two hours of music that's about 500 meg. And 384K is about 8 times the quality of CD audio.

More updating plus it keeps tripping the firewall that is blocking it from using the Internet that keeps asking me again and again if it's okay for it to access the Internet. I think Windows should realize if I said yes once, presumably I shouldn't have to be asked two more times.

Do you think that disabling your firewall is a "good practice" when trying to run a game via the Internet? If not, why so?

Well, I have two fucking choices here while the program is installing its patches. Disable the firewall or get a fucking confirmation Messagebox every 5 seconds asking me to unblock the program. Literally every 5 to 15 seconds, over and over, the goddam firewall keeps asking me if it's okay to unblock the internet connection of the program I've just okayed an unblock more than 30 times!

So far, "Patch time 32 minutes." More indication of incompetent people releasing bloated crapware. Can't they build the goddam application so it's right without yet more patches?

Do you know that modern software release processes of the magnitude of SC2 often have a "base" install and then patches that their entire user base will have to use anyway? Can you think of any other programs that might use this philosophy? If not, why so?

How long is the patch cycle? Are they doing a patch cycle for a week - new patches every week - or every month, or for six months? If you're going to generate a bunch of patches can't you integrate them into the program? How long has it been since they released a base version?

The usual reason for issuing patches was to reduce either the disk space on the distribution media or to reduce the amount of time one has to download the updates. But if you are sending out the original program it's reasonable to do an automatic build in which you tack on the latest patches to the build. If I have to have the patches anyway then you should include them as part of the build in the first place. Plus your patch program will know what patches you've already installed if there are new ones.

This is very common in software development, Paul. This allows them to ensure that the process everyone used to get to the latest version is the same.

Just because it's a common way to do things does not mean it is reasonable or a good way to do it. I mean, I saw how Installshield works because we had it at our office, and I said that the thing is way too complicated, far too brittle and easy to screw up, and requires way too much of a learning curve even to do simple installs.

You basically have to learn the equivalent of a new programming language to use Installshield. That's a very expensive learning curve.

Now let's look at the state of Blizzard's installer, shall we?

So they're building an installer that doesn't install the entire program and requires patches, then doesn't download all the patches at once so it stops tripping the firewall every 30 seconds, fails without giving an error message indicating why it failed, and if the patch program fails, none of the already applied patches stick, it has to start over at 0 and do all of them all over again.

Yeah, this really shows their stunning levels of competence and high professionalism.

As I said, if Comcast didn't give a fairly large Internet allocation this game would be expensive even before you started paying for it.

In Libya, they don't even have Internet right now. Do you think Blizz should have told you that if you were in Libya you wouldn't be able to download and play Starcraft 2: The Wings of Liberty?

Uh, you might want to check that. Any redirector or other website whose name ends in .LY is running in the Libya namespace, so there must be some connectivity of some kind, if for no other reason than to support the root domain servers for the .LY domain.

But again, the program, after my computer has spent two hours downloading the installer, then decides to tell me I might not have an adequate enough computer to run the program. Not before, but after I've spent 2 hours and 7 gigs of disk space. Inexcusable incompetence.

[pinback]

They seem to average about one major patch every two moths or so. Occasionally they'll slip a minor one in between there.

[Tdarcos]

Comparison to World of Warcraft. I'm trying the free version of World of Warcraft. That installer triggered exactly one firewall block warning, as opposed to more than 30 before I disabled the firewall when installing/patching SC2, but we'll see if we get more issues.