The Commander talks about Commodore Linux

[Tdarcos]

I downloaded and burned both DVDs of Comodore Linux, then shut down my machine and booted disc #1.

It came up okay and offered me a set of options, install, live CD, live CD with forced VGA, and something else, I think.

Anyway, I tried live CD. It showed a nice startup screen while the Linux OS is running in the background doing the setup. I happened to hit escape so the splash screen disappeared to show the actual background processing running.

It recognizes the sound hardware as it says something. But it never shows anything.

So I shut the machine down - I know with Linux you can't use CTRL-ALT-DEL, you have to use a hard reset through the on/off button - and I try again with forced VGA.

This actually works, and it talks again. And once it gets started, it warns you - by actually speaking! - that they don't promise it will work on non-Commodore hardware, then recommends installing the appropriate drivers for Commodore hardware.

So I try the video editing program, which is what I was interested in. Does work, and they did include the NTFS driver, so it can read and write to a windows partition, so it's able (once I find where the actual name and path of my documents folder is) to read a 100 megabyte video file, about 7 minutes. And it shows it okay, I didn't really want to try doing editing when I can't be sure I can save okay. (I'd rather set up a linux partition and a swap partition, I can throw 50 gigs at it for this purpose.)

I forget which distro, I think it's Ubuntu 11, does recognize my cheap $10 Tenda USB wireless adapter out of the box without having to install anything - something that, amazingly enough, Windows cannot do - and is able to initialize it so that it can talk to my wireless router and thus be able to use Firefox to web surf from that Linux distro. This distro doesn't recognize this adapter, so it can't talk to the Internet.

It might be worth it to get a decent working video editor that can handle video files. I'm getting tired of Windows Video Editor allowing me to spend hours precisely editing a file, then when I go to render it, it runs for a few minutes then craps out with an error window that says it can't save, as if it blames the computer for not having enough space. Yeah, right, my computer is low on space. I'm down to about 1.6 terabytes free.

[bruce]

So I shut the machine down - I know with Linux you can't use CTRL-ALT-DEL, you have to use a hard reset through the on/off button

Sweet Christ.

Bruce

[Tdarcos]

So I shut the machine down - I know with Linux you can't use CTRL-ALT-DEL, you have to use a hard reset through the on/off button

Sweet Christ.

Bruce

What? Linux doesn't recognize CTRL-ALT-DEL as a command to either shut down the machine or invoke a process to do so. What is the problem?

Some versions of Linux might have X Windows patched to have it bring up a task manager equivalent in this case, I think I've seen it. Or it switches to a different runlevel, the one used to indicate must be in single-user mode, then executes the "shutdown" command.

[bruce]

So I shut the machine down - I know with Linux you can't use CTRL-ALT-DEL, you have to use a hard reset through the on/off button

Sweet Christ.

Bruce

What? Linux doesn't recognize CTRL-ALT-DEL as a command to either shut down the machine or invoke a process to do so. What is the problem?

The problem, you cretinous mouthbreather, is that you then don't recognize that the next step is, "huh, I don't know very much about Linux. I guess I'd better try and research how you shut it down properly. Oh, if only I had a magical box connected to a network in which resided something I could ask for some answers," you think the next step is, "Well shucks howdy this thang ain't like Windows, sheee-it, Virgil, guess'n I'd better pull the plug, which coincidentally is what yer doin' to yer own sister right now!"

Bruce

[Tdarcos]

Sweet Christ.

Bruce

What? Linux doesn't recognize CTRL-ALT-DEL as a command to either shut down the machine or invoke a process to do so. What is the problem?

The problem, you cretinous mouthbreather, is that you then don't recognize that the next step is, "huh, I don't know very much about Linux. I guess I'd better try and research how you shut it down properly.

Ah, the sign of the worse-than-incompetent: go immediately to ad-hominem insults having nothing to do with the question at hand. In case you hadn't thought about it (which is probably always the case since I suspect you're incapable of thought at all), if the video is not working, the only option available is to use the shutdown button (or pull the plug if that is unavailable). There is no way to tell what state the machine is in and what response it is awaiting. It might be at shell, it might be in X, or it might be in limbo not accepting input at that time if ever.

Further, if you had bothered to read what I said and maybe had even the slightest intelligence - which your comments clearly indicate you have none whatsoever - you would have noted that I stated I started it in Live CD mode, which means it does not install anything, does not open a disk-based filesystem and thus the machine can be shut down at any time because there is nothing to sync.

But no, you couldn't see that. In your warped and twisted incompetence, all you can do is throw ad-hominem insults at me. I find your inability to think a clear and obvious sign of your absolute nonexistent value and unarguable proof that you are a walking advertisement for contraception. Your weak and trivial efforts, by an admitted self-acknowledged failure, to attempt to insult me are a waste of time. You bore me. You are nothing but a boil on the ass of the universe, awaiting the lancet which will terminate your less-than-worthless existence.

[bruce]

In your warped and twisted incompetence, all you can do is throw ad-hominem insults at me. I find your inability to think a clear and obvious sign of your absolute nonexistent value and unarguable proof that you are a walking advertisement for contraception. Your weak and trivial efforts, by an admitted self-acknowledged failure, to attempt to insult me are a waste of time. You bore me. You are nothing but a boil on the ass of the universe, awaiting the lancet which will terminate your less-than-worthless existence.

On the bright side, I'm still a biped.

Bruce

[bruce]

Also, Jesus, before yanking the power cord, did you consider hitting ctrl-alt-F[2-6] to see if you popped into text mode and got one of the virtual ttys? Did you consider ctrl-alt-backspace to kill the X server and get back to a text interface? From which you could have looked at the X server logs and seen what video mode it wanted that your feces-smeared computer can't support?

No, you didn't, because shucks howdy this thing ain't like Windows, sheeee-it Virgil.

Bruce

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

I thought Cntl-Alt-Del caused an interrupt. Totally the BIOS taking control of things. I take it Linux intercepts that or something?

[The Happiness Engine]

Bios doesn't trap anything from a keyboard, it's all OS-defined. MS picked C-A-D probably because it's modifier keys that are really physically separated. They did the same thing later with that fucking Alt-Esc "Windows Key"

[Tdarcos]

You are nothing but a boil on the ass of the universe, awaiting the lancet which will terminate your less-than-worthless existence.

On the bright side, I'm still a biped.
Bruce

I may not be able to walk, but tomorrow I will still have intelligence; you will still be an incompetent.

[pinback]

You are nothing but a boil on the ass of the universe, awaiting the lancet which will terminate your less-than-worthless existence.

On the bright side, I'm still a biped.
Bruce

I may not be able to walk, but tomorrow I will still have intelligence; you will still be an incompetent.

He wrote that over a month ago. Let it go, pardner. Let it go.

[Tdarcos]

Also, Jesus, before yanking the power cord, did you consider hitting ctrl-alt-F[2-6] to see if you popped into text mode and got one of the virtual ttys?

Yes. That was actually the first thing I tried, getting a virtual terminal. No visible change. When the computer sits too long, I'll start trying to get a virtual terminal, sometimes this will tell me what happened. In this case, no soap.

Did you consider ctrl-alt-backspace to kill the X server and get back to a text interface?

Also didn't work. I've actually done this in a few stores that ran a desktop application for taking applications, it's cute that they're running Linux because it provides better armoring against the users getting into the system.

From which you could have looked at the X server logs and seen what video mode it wanted that your feces-smeared computer can't support?

Again with the insults, eh? Your incompetence just reeks. The fact remains that it didn't matter, the system is running in live CD mode; it means it does not create any disc files, it creates a ramdisk-based system, thus even puling the plug doesn't matter.

It should also be noted it is neither my responsibility nor my problem if their installation of the operating system is so bad that they can't set it up without it failing.

No, you didn't, because shucks howdy this thing ain't like Windows, sheeee-it Virgil.

Bruce

Your example quote again shows your obvious inability to understand things. Linux is - or claims to be - a competitor to Windows and usable for desktop use. When the system fails in such a manner that you have to know arcane keyboard strokes, shell commands and other such things. it says that the system is razor sharp and dangerous and is as unready for normal ordinary people's use as it was 10 years ago.

Windows may have problems but at least when you install it it will at least run in SVGA mode and doesn't have to push to maximum hardware capacity, and, under regular operation you can choose to change video modes, and if it goes bad, in 15 seconds it will reset back to a known-good state.

And all you can do is throw insults at me, because you immediately go to "blame the victim mode" and then, instead of acting as a professional, you immediately show your stupidity and incompetence by going right for the ad-hominem insults. If someone points out that they have a problem, the professional answer is to respond with a potential solution. The incompetent and/or insolent response is what you did: to insult them because you lack the capacity to act with civil discourse or to refrain from responding.

And to top it all off, your incompetence shows in your choice of insults, which were on the level of a mosquito assaulting a bug zapper. I've had people use insults on me that would discolor the brick in a blast furnace. Your lame and inconsequential attempts at invective just confirm "beyond a shadow of a doubt and to an absolute certainty" that you're incapable of rational thought.

[pinback]

He also wrote that over a month agAHH FORGET IT.

[AArdvark]

We got sidetracked here, how is that OS working?



THE
REVIEW
AARDVARK

[Tdarcos]

I thought Cntl-Alt-Del caused an interrupt. Totally the BIOS taking control of things. I take it Linux intercepts that or something?

If I remember correctly, Control-Alt-Del doesn't generate an interrupt; it was just the convention that IBM chose for rebooting a PC. (I will go check before ending this message.) What's interesting is that the SysRQ key does generate an interrupt but nobody ever bothered using it.

SysRQ is exactly the same as a similar key on the system console of IBM 370-class mainframe computers that's used to allow the console to give commands to the operating system. Strangely enough, as I pointed out, even though this key does generate an interrupt, nobody used it.

I just spent several minutes doing a search which confirmed what I said. There is a standard interrupt for "Keyboard Break" (which is either CTRL-BREAK or the SysRQ key), but CTRL-ALT-DEL does not generate any special interrupt other than the standard keyboard interrupt every time any key is pressed (or held down).

Having said this, on some versions of Linux, probably in the keyboard device driver or perhaps in X, there is something done that, when the user hits a CTRL-ALT-DEL it generates the equivalent of a shell command to change the runlevel to either single user only or single user with forced reboot, and then proceeds to do the equivalent of issuing a "shutdown -now" command (with SUDO if the logged-in user isn't root). It's not consistent, some versions do it and some don't.

[RetroRomper]

We got sidetracked here, how is that OS working?

Spent three hours with it the other day - its Debian with a slightly different window manager. Arguably a little more sane than Gnome or Unity (both receive an "Urgh..." award) but nothing special.

[Flack]

Is there anything inherently "Commodore-centric" about it?

[RetroRomper]

The wallpaper?

Its a Debian forked distro loaded with a few C64 and Amiga emulators, a custom Gnome 2 theme (light blue on dark blue, accompanied by zany futuristic sound effects) that includes turned on by default, all the "neato" 3D effects I normally disable in Ubuntu and... Nothing else.

If your looking for the forked, bastard step child of a mid 80's OS, it'd be more appropriate to load up AmigaOS 4.

[Ice Cream Jonsey]

I just spent several minutes doing a search which confirmed what I said. There is a standard interrupt for "Keyboard Break" (which is either CTRL-BREAK or the SysRQ key), but CTRL-ALT-DEL does not generate any special interrupt other than the standard keyboard interrupt every time any key is pressed (or held down).

OK. I just went to the Wikipedia article for Cntl-Alt-Del.

On a PC running DOS or a system that runs in real mode, this keystroke combination is recognized by the keyboard handling code in the BIOS unless the keyboard interrupt has been hooked by some other resident program. The BIOS reacts by invoking a soft (aka warm) reboot. Under Windows 3.0 and earlier (and Windows 3.1x running in Standard mode), Control-Alt-Delete reboots the computer as in MS-DOS.

I thought I remember what specific interrupt it generated when I programmed in Assembly for work. In real mode, anyway, that combination generated Int 19h.

But yeah, all operating systems steal that combination now, which is fucking retarded. I used to have a KVM set up with a Windows NT machine and a DOS machine. I constantly had the monitor set for one and the keyboard set for the other and rebooted my DOS machine trying to fucking logon to the NT machine.

I may have already bitched about that in a previous paragraph, but fuck this thread.

[Tdarcos]

I may have already bitched about that in a previous paragraph, but fuck this thread.

I think fucking a thread would hurt, but even so, wouldn't you have to be a dick to do that? (Rimshot)