C&C: Generals

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:00 pm

There's nothing wrong with having an opinion. But if you're going to pollute a thread with contrarian bullcrap, please try to keep it to ONE opinion.

If you had stuck with your original opinion ("LOL PC GAMES SUX"), then that would have been fine. There was even a hint of merit to your console loyalty, as there are definitely a lot more problems getting PC games to work.

But then you tried to warp the conversation to your OTHER opinion ("RTS SUX"), which is an unfair and dishonest method of debating (not to mention a dumbass opinion to begin with). You should start a new "RTS SUX" thread if you want to talk about the relative demerits of RTS vs. other genres.

Jack Straw · Post by **Jack Straw** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:13 pm

pinback wrote:You should start a new "RTS SUX" thread if you want to talk about the relative demerits of RTS vs. other genres.

That would assume I care enough about the subject to do more than slap "RTS sucks" into an image in Paint and post 4 words. Everything's not a debate, that's what's been pissing me off about Groucho lately.

(l)user 1: I think blahahahahababab ababahash
(l)user 2: well *I* think that blahahaahahaahaahaha
(l)user 3: While I agree with points 1 and 6 of user 1, bllalaisghahyagagasgsdhshasdfhds

I was just giving you shit about complaining about changing the resolution, it ain't gonna turn into a poll or something.

DO U THINK RTS SUX??
1 - Y
2 - N

DISCUSS

Ice Cream Jonsey · Post by **Ice Cream Jonsey** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:28 pm

RTS sucks now because there's absolutely no innovation whatsoever.

Whoa! I gotta start completely over and MINE GOLD and shit from this level?

Whoa! I gotta do that again?

Whoa! I was thrown into a map and everything I did previously is ignored and I gotta start from scratch!? WHOA, MOFO, WHOA!

Whoa!!!! Dammit, I gotta defend this dude for 60 minutes, but at 58:20 precisely it becomes really tough to do so, whoa!!!

Fucking repetitive maggot shit.

I did ALL of that in WC2 and C&C:RA.

Never again.

"How about giving us something new?" -- Every fan of Steve Howe, after hearing Clap for the 69,105th time.

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:36 pm

Jonsey, we (you and I) were not talking about whether or not you LIKE RTS anymore, or whether or not you find the genre "PLAYED" or "UN-INNOVATIVE" anymore. That would make for an interesting discussion, but it's not one I'm qualified to enter into.

We (you and I) were discussed whether or not the graphics in WC3 are better than those of its predecessor, and every time we come back to the question of whether you can honestly say WC2 has the superior graphics -- EVEN FROM THE TOP DOWN PERSPECTIVE -- you begin to dodge and weave and change the subject.

This is because you are a terrible person, who I hate.

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:29 pm

Ice Cream Jonsey wrote:Plus, I really, really wanna go back and finish Red Alert right now.

Either you're sick of the very concept of RTS or you're not. If you are, then you wouldn't want to play any of them. If you're not, then why wouldn't you want to play the best and most advanced the genre has to offer?

Your unrepentant luddism sickens me.

EDIT: I have no idea if "luddism" is the correct form of the word "luddite", but it sounded better in my head then any of the alternative constructs I could form.

DOUBLE EDIT: And all this talk about a lack of progress in a specific genre from a guy who is (allegedly) writing a text adventure is just shameful.

TRIPLE EDIT MY GOD WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END: Homeworld, Homeworld II, Tropico, Tropico II: Pirate Cove, Majesty, Europa Universalis, Europa Universalis II. Just to be argumentative.

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:42 pm

That was the greatest post in the history of this BBS.

Debaser is God!

Worm · Post by **Worm** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:15 pm

Well, I lost my huge reply due to the motherfucking BBS caca that Straw burst all over this thread in the form of a Google image search flood and under the guise of a point. If your images fuck up a thread in 1024 x 768 just take them out. Don't even pretend that you meant for me to read this thread well I am doing two things for school and have to switch my resolution then when trying to close the full screen thread listing that was still lined up for a 1280 x 768 size screen and have me accidently close my post. Just be less stupid with the images, k?
ICJ:
I'm not going to have any quotes but here it goes.
Myst and Riven were prerended 3d environments that you clicked there wasn't any perspective (maybe first person I don't know) Gothic II is third person. Just say third person next time.
Debase: Tropico is a simulation game, for fuck's sake.

As for RTS, Starcraft was far ahead of games like Age of Empires and Warcraft. Starcraft could be won by building shitloads of units with a script, it was by no means perfect. Though you could be strategic in what units you used, where, and when. The only evolution that RTS has is to more strategic gameplay.

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:30 pm

Worm wrote:Debase: Tropico is a simulation game, for fuck's sake.

WRONG. People think Tropico is a simulation game because it is in many ways similair to Sim City. But they are WRONG.

Wonder Twin Powers Activate! Form of: Long-winded pedantic asshole!

There are six broad genres into which most games fit. While some game mix and match (or cross) elements from different genres, nearly all fit primarily into a single classification:

ACTION GAME: Game wherein the player relies primarily on coordingation, reflexes, and the ability to respond appropriately under pressure. Usually involves combat or some other violent activity, but most sports games fit under this banner as well. Popular subgenres include the 2D shooter, the Shoot 'em Up, the Beat 'em Up, the 3D Shooter, the 4D Beater, and the Columbine Massacre.

STRATEGY GAME: A game in which intelligent, long-term planning is the primary key to success. Usually, but not neccessarily includes features such as resource management and tactical combat. Popular subgenres include the Real Time Strategy Game, the War Game, and the 4X Game.

PUZZLE GAME: A game in which the player must solve puzzles or complete arbitrary tasks in an abstract, minimalist, or surreal environment. Popular subgenres include the rythm game.

ADVENTURE GAME: Game in which exploration and the solving of puzzles (which are, ideally at least, tied in some way to the environment of the game, unlike true puzzle games wherein the puzzles are unapologetically arbitrary) are the primary (and usually only) activities the player engages in. There are no popular subgenres.

SIMULATION GAME: A game which is more interested in accurately and realistically depicting a real (or at least plausably possible) activity such as flying a plane than it is in providing a fun and/or challenging experience for the player (though, ideally, the activity is interesting enough to be enjoyable). Usually these games are as much educational as they are entertaining, if not moreso. Popular Subgenres include the flight simulator and the Japanese rape simulator.

ROLE PLAYING GAME: Game wherein the player pretends to be a female elf for a few hours and then softly cries himself to sleep.

Now, as is clear to anyone who has played the game, Tropico in no way accurately depicts the trials and tribulations of actually being the overlord of a banana republic. Hence it does not belong in the simulation genre, but rather the strategy genre. If you insist that a strategy game requires combat, I will simply point out that Tropico does have combat, albeit very little. And, since the game takes place in a real time as opposed to turn-based environment, it is a Real Time Strategy Game.

You stand corrected.

AArdvark · Post by **AArdvark** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:44 pm

ADVENTURE GAME: Game in which exploration and the solving of puzzles (which are, ideally at least, tied in some way to the environment of the game, unlike true puzzle games wherein the puzzles are unapologetically arbitrary) are the primary (and usually only) activities the player engages in. There are no popular subgenres.

I disagree, I would call 'Go to the Metal Concert' a sub catergory

pinback · Post by **pinback** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:43 pm

Worm wrote:The only evolution that RTS has is to more strategic gameplay.

Having exposed myself in quick succession to the three "generations" of Warcraft games, I think I'm in a fairly secured spot from which to lob forth the following opinion: You are a dope.

Evolutions from WC1 to WC2:

1. Much better grouping/team controls.
2. Much smoother/quicker gameplay.
3. Vaguely better graphics/sound.
4. Significantly better cinematics.
5. Slightly better voice acting.

Evolutions from WC2 to WC3:

1. Extremely better grouping/team controls (primarily subgrouping, hero-selection methods.) Also, much better control of worker units due to the F8/"idle worker button" controls.
2. Astonishingly better graphics, despite what the delusional Sysop says.
3. Ridiculously better cinematics, dramatic plotline.
4. Sensationally better voice acting. This, if nothing else, is worth the upgrade from 2 to 3. "I WOULD LOVE TO!" indeed. Arg? WC2 is painful to listen to.

Whether the newer game is more "strategic" than its predecessor is open to some conjecture. I mean, in both you still have to choose what buildings to buy, units to purchase, etc. The experience and the refinement of the latter game are so very much richer in every respect, though, that failing to acknowledge this progression would seem to be self-delusional in the extreme.

bruce · Post by **bruce** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:53 pm

AArdvark wrote:
There are no popular subgenres.
I disagree, I would call 'Go to the Metal Concert' a sub catergory

You're both right.

Bruce